It doesn’t matter if it’s a fact; it’s still the ravings of a crazy person, that is, a person who thinks that fact somehow matters.
Yes, it is a fact. A basic fact about Islam, even. The statement was not that someone retained Muslimness into adulthood despite belief or practice, but that Islam is traced patrilinealy. It’s the primary justification for allowing Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women, while Muslim women are required to marry Muslim men.
How do you think religion is determined in those Muslim majority countries where religion is listed on identification cards?
Malaysia rejects bid for Christian convert to remove Islam ID tag
So, it matters in Muslim countries. But, it’s just a fun-fact, it still says nothing that matters about Obama.
You just won’t stop digging, will you?
Again, who someone’s parents are matters, as it part of what makes them who they are. Obama clearly understood this, since he included his background in his book. The current candidates sure understand it, they don’t waste a chance to talk about their humble native origins. Some people suspect that a person born of a Muslim father might be more sympathetic to Muslims. I actually agree with them on this, I just don’t think that it is a negative. I certainly don’t try to pretend it isn’t relevant at all.
Only to some Muslims.
But, once again, we are not discussing the relevance of Obama having a Muslim father, but the relevance of this factoid that any Muslim father’s child “is” a Muslim. To whom is that relevant, and why?
Wrong, most people consider parentage to be formative.
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But, once again, we are not discussing the relevance of Obama having a Muslim father,
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No, that’s what YOU are discussing, in a lame attempt to corral the discussion
No, not “is” a Muslim. Was born a Muslim “in that sense”, in the sense that Islam is traced patrilinealy.
To anyone curious about his background. And judging by how often political candidates invoke their own parental creation myths, that is a lot of voters.
It was relevant to me. It was one of the things that made me hopeful about his presidency. People can have some loyalty and familiarity based on their parents’ backgrounds, even if they haven’t met the parent. So I thought he might just be a little more sympathetic to the plight of Muslims, and could have a better cumulative humanitarian effect, as a result. I think it may have even come to pass, to a degree. It’s always hard to guess what the alternatives would have led to, though.
Not by non-Muslims.
Many cultures are patrilineal. That means that they consider the father’s identity (surname / race / ethnicity / religion / etc.) to determine the children’s identity.
Assuming for the moment that that is universal for Muslims, all it means is that for observant Muslims, Obama is either a Muslim or an apostate Muslim.
Christians, as a rule, do NOT consider religion to be bestowed at birth. (They have a special ceremony, called baptism, which, in their minds, overrides any prior religious commitments.) So by the rules of Christianity, the baptized Obama is a Christian.
In other words, if he is a Muslim by Muslim rules, he is also a Christian by Christian rules. You can’t allow one but not the other without breaking your logic.
So now we have Christian Muslim Obama. His Muslim identity was bestowed at birth, without his awareness, knowledge, or consent, and he has chosen not to practice the faith. His Christian identity was chosen and continues to be chosen in his everyday religious life.
I’m okay with saying that he’s both, from various perspectives, but it’s like saying he’s an Irish-American. Yes, it’s true, to a degree, but utterly meaningless in terms of his identity or his actions. It’s kind of like a historical fun fact: first Muslim-American president, on a technicality.
It’s more sensible to say that he’s a Christian, and more accurate in almost every context.
It’s perfectly reasonable to think he might have a higher chance of having some larger than average degree of sympathy with Muslims, due to his heritage. People who grow up with step parents very often explore the cultures of their biological parents.
NBC News calls NH for Trump
:rolleyes:
In the absence of any other evidence, yes, this would be a perfectly reasonable hypothesis.
When confronted with the reams and reams of evidence available, it ceases to be reasonable. There is no evidence that Obama’s sympathy with Muslims is any greater than your average educated centrist Democrat. (That’s leaving aside the obvious question “what does it mean to exhibit ‘sympathy with Muslims?’”)
Furthermore, his feelings aren’t terribly relevant to his job as President. His positions and the actions based on those positions are important. Can you give an example of a position or action that demonstrates sympathy with Muslims beyond that shown by politically similar colleagues?
I don’t know, I can’t see Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter saying, “The future will not belong to those who insult the Prophet Muhammed.” That was just a weird swipe at blasphemy, something which has long been a tradition in the US for satirists.
I wonder why those Republicans who think that Chelsea got pregnant in order to deliver a baby in the middle of the election, don’t say the same thing about Ivanka Trump.
Because nobody could believe that Ivanka could believe, 7 months ago, that Trump was serious about running?
The discussion is still about what this Rooney told the Salon reporter, and why that says anything at all about Obama, which it doesn’t.
There are all kinds of actions that could be due to sympathy for Muslims, but as someone who doesn’t think the long term interests of Americans diverge all that much from those of the average Muslim, I am probably not the person to ask. He has continued to fight against some of the worst victimizers of Muslims in Afghanistan. He sure doesn’t seem like someone who is eager to go to war, yet we have maintained a presence near areas where our enemies are powerful in Iraq and Afghanistan, which I think is smart.
He is balancing so many factors that it’s very hard to judge his performance at all, since we don’t know what results the second-guessers’ suggestions would have brought. And pretty much impossible to judge whether his father’s background has any influence one way or another. But it’s easy, and reasonable, to say that it *might *very well play some small part in his ability to remember the humanity of people on the other side of the planet, as he makes decisions that effect their lives.
I think Trump just said he was going to stop heroin from coming into the country.
That might be the craziest thing he has said yet.