Try this for a solution to the Iraq problem.

Its looking like Iraq may be linked to the anthrax cases. See this article: Iraq “behind US outbreaks”.

The only thing stopping America from taking out Saddam is that we believe he has at least 10 missiles armed with anthrax which he could fire at Israel if his regime were threatened. See this article: Iraq stockpiled anthrax in run-up to Gulf war.

So we can’t attack Saddam because he may launch a biological attack against Israel.

The Solution

We temporarily remove the civilian population of Israel while we deal with Saddam.

We keep Israel’s borders just as strong, militarily, as they are now. In fact, we make them stronger using US and British firepower.

And then we attack Iraq. The only thing that makes us reluctant to attack Iraq at the moment is the fact we have friends on the border so the solution is we move those friends to safety while we deal with Iraq and then move them back.

Saddam can then release his weapons if he wishes but it won’t matter because no one will be there.

Even if he does fire his weapons at Israel, anthrax won’t poison the Israeli land forever because it is possible to kill the anthrax spores - it just takes drastic measures. You have to drench the land in formaldehyde and then dig up a foot of top-soil and dispose of it.

This is what the British have done on a Scottish Island where they tested anthrax during WWII. The island is now considered safe.

So basically, my point is:

  • we have to get rid of Saddam

  • we can’t get rid of him while there are innocent civilians around who he may try to harm

  • we remove those civilians

  • we attack Saddam

I know its a big project but it may be the only solution.

Any thoughts?

Call me back when you wake up!

Makes perfect sense to me. We don’t really have to move them far, we could just give Afghanistan to Israel.

xanakis, you have the solution to everything, don’t you?

I think I’m just gonna start calling you xanakis, the solution guy. :slight_smile:

I really appreciate your consideration in avoiding stepping on my penis - Spiny Norman
[sup][sub][sym]©[/sym][/sub][/sup] Jeg elsker dig, Thomas [sup][sub][sym]©[/sym][/sub][/sup]

My solution is simpler, and just as effective.

Draft Harry Potter.

Thank you very much.


I prefer to concentrate on solutions rather than problems.

Even if my solutions don’t work, at least I try!!!

Isn’t there an anthrax vaccine? Wouldn’t it be easier to just inoculate the Israeli population and have the treatments handy rather than remove the population and dig up the topsoil?

Peace on Earth, wish you were here.

Seriously, why do you imagine that WE are in a position to tell Israel to vacate the premises because we’re going to do some fumigating? Israel would in no way remove themselves, it’s laughable to assume otherwise. And let’s not forget they (probably) have nuclear weapons. They would be perfectly happy to deal with Iraq on their own terms. I don’t think they’re very worried (in a significant sense) about Anthrax by missle, it didn’t happen in the Gulf War and it won’t happen now.

Oh, and you plan on forcibly removing the Palestinians as well, can’t really leave them there while the Israelis are gone now could you. So you’re going to force them to leave a place they’ve been fighting to stay for 50 years.

BTW, you didn’t happen to mention where you’re going to put all these people. I’m sure Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt will welcome the Palestinians, after all the welcomed them with open arms before. And the Israelis can shack up with friends in NYC for a few months, right?

Um, exactly how are we going to “take care of” Saddam? Are we gonna blow him up just like we did in the Gulf War? Wait, that didn’t work. What are we trying to blow up anyways? Didn’t the letters come from FL and the Phillipines?

Let’s not mention the fact that no one wants a power vacuum in Iraq, we don’t have any military bases in the area that would let us attack from, the Muslim world and most of Europe would be aghast at this plan, and it doesn’t solve a recognizable problem (ie, Iraq can’t deliver biological weapons via missles).

Sounds like a solution to me.

(Sorry to sound so harsh, but this idea, like the others you’ve proposed, are pretty much non-starters.)

Telemark is on the money here. Still, if this is traceable back to Iraq, there really needs to be some @sskicking done. When we’re finished, Hussein should be wearing his @ss for a hat.

I like xanakis’s solutions.

You have to admit that they’re kind of fun, in a crazy, internationally-illegal, guaranteed-to-piss-off-the-most-number-of-people kind of way!


Um… Instead of moving a couple of… what, million people? Then having to clean up afterward…

Wouldn’t it be easier to bomb the launchers beforehand, say with something nice like a Fuel-Air-Explosive weapon, which tends to produce a lot of serilizing heat and flame?

And if there IS any sporidium left over, let Saddam worry about 'em.

Population of Israel: 5,938,093 (July 2001 est.)

The office of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees estimates there are currently a total of about 21.8 million refugees in the world; so this proposal would increase that number by about 27% at a single stroke. This would be a movement of people of the same order of magnitude as the population exchange between Greece and Turkey after World War I, the expulsion of the Germans from Poland after World War II, or the exchange of Hindus and Sikhs for Muslims between Pakistan and India after the partition of British India–all of which would have to be considered major humanitarian disasters.

To put it another way, it took the United States something like six months to deploy less than one-tenth that number of troops before the Persian Gulf War. If this is to be an orderly movement of people, it would take a lot of time, and a fantastic amount of resources. Even a ruthless evacuation at gunpoint, with people taking only the clothes on their back, will not happen overnight.

What’s Saddam going to be doing during this period of absolute chaos? Why wouldn’t he fire his missiles while the evacuation was still underway? Given the incredible pandemonium that would result, he might even send troops across Jordan and into Israel. And what’s everyone else in the Middle East doing during all this?

Finally, given the history of the Jewish people in the 20th Century, the Israelis would probably be rather resistant to being “evacuated” to anywhere. And Israel has nuclear weapons, so the Israelis have the means to be very stubborn if they fear their very survival is at stake.

Just imagine what would happen if xanakis and Wildest Bill were to brainstorm on solutions for the world’s problems… :rolleyes: :smiley:

ok, so lets take the objections one at a time:

There’s an anthrax vaccine, we could innoculate the people rather than move them

There is a vaccine but it’s effectiveness against airborne anthrax is uncertain. It definitely works for skin anthrax but this isn’t what we’d be dealing with.

Israel could kick Iraqi ass on their own terms

Yes they could but the number of casualties involved in a major airborne anthrax incident has been estimated as being as high as one to three million. Theres only 5 million of them, they couldn’t take casualties of that magnitude.

They could nuke Baghdad of course but this would just result in a major middle east war with many more casualties. If we evacuate the Israelis then we could oust Saddam using conventional weapons and keep casualties to a mininum. We would just target the Iraqi military not the civilians.

The Israelis wouldn’t want to go

Why not? If it means saving up to 3 million Israeli lives. As I mentioned, the borders would still be secure. More secure than they are now in fact.

Iraq didn’t use the anthrax missiles during the Gulf War

Of course not, the regime wasn’t threatened. If they had started firing anthrax missiles at Israel they would have been obliterated. Saddam doesn’t want to actually use these missiles because then he’s blown his best shot. The missiles are of more use as a deterrent than as an actual weapon. But if the Iraqi regime itself were threatened, I wouldn’t like to bet that he wouldn’t use them against the Israelis just by way of a parting shot.

What about the Palestinians?

They can stay or go as they please. If there’s only Palestinians there then Saddam probably wouldn’t use the missiles since Iraq would then lose all support among all the Arab states. In fact, its better (from the west’s point of view) if they stay because it makes it less likely that Saddam will use the missiles. It would be safer for them to go however.

Where would the Israelis go?

All over. The US would take some, Europe would take some, Australia would take some. 5 million isn’t all that many spread out over the whole world. I think there would be some poetic justice if Germany took a large number - the country that tried to exterminate them 60 years ago now becomes a Jewish sanctuary.

And there wouldn’t be 5 million anyway. The military and other essential workers would have to stay behind. Israel’s military forms quite a large proportion of its population. So the total number of refugees would probably be more like 3 or 4 million.

With Israels population safely out of the way, I don’t think it would take very long to oust Saddam. We could take the gloves off. After a coupla months or so all the Israelis could return.

Wouldn’t there be a power vacuum in Iraq?

No, there are opposition groups based in London who are ready to take over at any time. There is an Iraqi opposition movement within the country. We don’t hear much about them because Saddam is so ruthlessly efficient at weeding them out, but they are there and if they were given the chance to emerge, I think we’d be surprised at just how many people there are in Iraq who oppose Saddam. They are just too afraid to come out and say it right now (understandably).

Why not bomb the launchers beforehand?

Because we don’t know where they are.

There’s gonna be a helluva lot of refugees

I did say this was a big project.

The evacuation will take time, won’t Saddam fire his missiles while its all going on?

He may, but then again he may not.

We’d certainly have to be fast. We could start the attack on Iraq at the same time as we start the evacuation. Saddam would probably only fire the missiles as a last resort when US troops are marching on Baghdad. By this stage the war will have been going on for a month or so. And anyway the US could deliberately progress slowly so as to give the Israelis time to get out.

Telemark you made a couple of comments that made me think you didn’t read my links:

It is thought that they can.

Airborne anthrax (the type that was used in Florida) is very difficult to make. It requires huge centrifuges, specialist equipment and costs millions.

The strain of anthrax used resembles a strain known to be possessed by Iraq.

The anthrax attacks only started happening after America told the UN it reserves the right to widen the conflict.

For “widen the conflict” read “attack Iraq”.

I realise my plan sounds a touch extreme but what’s the alternative? Invade Iraq and have three million Israelis killed by anthrax?

We could choose not to invade Iraq, of course, but, if it can be proven that Saddam is behind these anthrax incidents, then what? We just leave him alone to send us all anthrax Christmas cards?

If the Iraqi regime is complicit in the anthrax attacks then they have to go.

If they have to go then its best if we do it as quickly as possible and with the least number of civilian casualties as possible. Both Israeli and Iraqi.

xan, you forgot about the Kurds. Turkey hates them so much that they are all but willing to enter into Iraq just to prevent a greater Kurdistan from forming.

And another factor: Iran. Are you willing to fight them too? You will have too.

First of all, the Israelis won’t leave. Nothing you can say, no statistics, no persuasive words, no threats, will make this happen. They have been attacked 4 times by all of their neighbors and more Jews came to Israel. There’s nothing happening now that would change that. They’ve lived the last 50 years being threatened, they don’t see anything now that would cause them to all of a sudden decide to vacate.

While it is possible that Iraq could put biological weapons on a missle, they can’t delive anthrax or any other BW in manner to truly create a weapon of mass destruction. Heck, they could barely aim the SCUDs last time, do you think they could do much of anything this time to target an attack on the population centers of Israel?

Any what makes you think the Iraqi regime wasn’t under threat during the Gulf War? They were willing to fire missles at Israel but held off because they somehow knew that the actual regime wasn’t at risk. Is that your argument? I’d love to see something to back that up.

Where are the estimates for 1 to 3 million deaths? Please show some sites for this, and how they are applicible to the Iraq/Israel situation.

With the Israelis gone, the Palestinians are just going to sit tight and not retake the West Bank, Jeruselam, and the rest of Israel? Why not? None of them will have work, where will they get income, food, etc? Either you’ll have to leave the Israeli Army in place, put the US Army in their place, or the UN. I suspect the Intifata would continue, most likely much worse.

Certainly, 3-4 million refugees would be no problem for the world to handle. You’ll personally be taking 200,000, right?

Sorry, your plan starts with assumptions that don’t hold up to examination, and goes off from there to flights of fancy. You’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist, with a solution that’s worse than the imagined problem.

Why do I feel like the past 8 years have done nothing but put my life and country in jeopardy.

Weapons inspectors should never have left Iraq. THE US should have been up his ass until they were done.

Clinton failed on several major earth shaking fronts. He couldn’t follow-up on Iraq, he couldn’t catch Bin Laden, the Cole mess, Africa, etc.

When you are the leader of the free world, FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION - IT HAS DIRE CONSEQUENCES.

Can we launch Monica Lewinsky’s fat ass over to Iraq and squoosh the cheesey mustached leader. Maybe we can paint her disgusting lips with Anthrax and have her pleasure his sandy crusty privates.


Sadly I agree with you that the Israelis won’t leave. My plan was more a suggestion of what should happen rather than what would happen.

However the situation we have now is different to the previous attacks on Israel. The Israeli population has never been faced with a biological attack before.

I made it clear that the Israeli military would remain in place in order to stop the Palestinians or anyone else from taking over Israel.

You say Iraq can’t deliver an anthrax missile yet I cited you an article which says that they may be able to. You haven’t given me any cites to back up your claim that they can’t.

Here’s a link which shows that Iraq’s biological program is ongoing.

More reassuringly, here’s a link from a biologist who seems to think an attack by anthrax wouldn’t work. I hope he’s right.

In any case, I think we would be justified in at least vaccinating the Israelis before we move on Iraq.

Here’s another link that seems to suggest anthrax would not be effective as a weapon of mass destruction.

That’s it?!? That’s the best answer you can come up with to that specific objection? “Well…maybe Saddam wouldn’t launch his missiles.”

C’mon. Evacuating 6 million people would take time, probably months. What, we tell Saddam–“Oh, um, all the Israelis are, um, er, ah, going on vacation! Yeah, that’s it! They’ve decided to take a vacation–yep, all of them! What a country, huh? They’ve all decided to go to the Catskills for a couple weeks! So, um, no need to worry, Saddam, and, uh, don’t worry about those half-a-million U.S. troops who just showed up in Kuwait, and, uh, don’t call us, we’ll call you.”

Okay, what? We tell Saddam “Oops, sorry about that um, ‘border incursion’ by 12 armored divisions–er, a ‘local commander exceeded his initiative’. We’re just having ‘exercises’, that’s all. And like we said, the entire population of Israel just remembered they left an iron on over in Australia. Sheer coincidence. Please don’t fire any missiles at Tel Aviv. We’ll withdraw our troops immediately. Oops–guess our guys can’t read a map–oh, right, the border is south, Baghdad is north. Heh, heh–continue not firing bioweapon-laden missiles at Tel Aviv–we’re almost to Baghdad–I mean, um, er, we’ve almost finished withdrawing our troops–we’re withdrawing via Turkey–they’re NATO and all that–you don’t mind, do you?”

Just admit it, okay–this plan has holes you could drive World War III through.

Back to zee drawing board!