But the problem is that that accomplishes nothing (well, except for the kids getting to watch their parent die before the intruder kills them in turn).
I don’t know about yours or his, but in my religion (Judaism), for example, that’s an utterly immoral position. And in my opinion, as well.
I don’t know if there are any reliable statistics out there for that (since “home invasion” isn’t a crime category - it’s usually recorded as 'breaking and entering" plus whatever other additional charges (assault, rape, etc.) are relevant). Here in the US, true burglars generally try to break into properties they are reasonably sure are unoccupied (often checking beforehand by ringing the doorbell, calling the phone number, etc., before they start the actual break-in) precisely because they don’t want a potentially dangerous encounter with a panicked homeowner. I understand that in places where the population is less likely to be armed that pattern may be different, as the burglar has less reason to fear the homeowner. (And I think that explains some of the mutual bafflement we see in these threads, as each side is assuming the situation in their country is the norm. In the US it’s dangerous to assume an intruder breaking into your home while you’re there is just a burglar, while that may be a sensible conclusion for people in other countries to draw.)
So is your wife never, ever alone in the apartment or what? She needs you around 24/7 to be able to protect your home as well as you could?
If you’re going to have a tool in your home for home protection, it seems silly that the tool could only be used by one person in the home. Does she shy away from the fire extinguisher too?
From the Brady Campaign.
So you have a 1 in 4 chance of violence when you’re home during a break-in.
But that’s just weird to me. My gun is a sporting item also - I use it for target practice, I have fun learning to reload ammunition (chemistry and explosives!) and it’s a challenging sport to master, where you can often be outside enjoying the day, and making loud noises and spending lots of money to make little holes in paper that don’t mean much to anyone besides you.
I don’t see my gun as a home defense weapon, but I KEEP IT IN MY HOME - just like I do all my other stuff, so therefore, if I NEEDED to fend someone off, I would go for it, because it’s the most efficiently and effectively lethal method I’ve got available, and if someone is in my house that isn’t supposed to be, I’m not going to dick around with “deterring” them. They’re going to stop, however quickly and permanently that can happen.
If I were at home, and someone broke in, and I ONLY had my croquet mallet handy, I’d go after the asshole with the croquet mallet! That doesn’t make it a “home defense croquet mallet,” right? I don’t practice braining intruders with my croquet mallet, but I bet it would work somewhat effectively.
Same with a baseball bat or a tire iron or a frying pan or hell, even a nice whippy fishing rod if I could dig it out of the closet fast enough. All of those are sporting goods, and I don’t use them regularly with the intent to kill people, but if I or my house were attacked, I’d use them that way in a skinny minute if that was all I had available to me!
It seems like there’s less of a “guns are not for home defense” attitude as much as a “don’t defend yourself *at all *with objects. Instead, avoid, flee, and wait for professionals” attitude from the OP.
That sort of attitude (waiting passively for the “professionals” to deal with a problem) isn’t really one that I can see taking off in the States. We don’t really do passive.
Well perfectparanoia did say he (she?) would bite and scratch them. That would definitely show them!
I know I could. I’ve done things in the heat of the moment that I’d never dream of doing once calmed down. I’d regret it after, especially if he died, but only to a certain extent - I might have bad dreams/feelings about killing a man but it wasn’t like it was in cold blood.
Blood burns hot in those moments. My only guns are .22s at the moment, but I do intend to eventually buy a shotgun. I have a hard time hitting the broad side of a barn with a pistol. Shotguns are a lot easier to aim.
But I hope to never have to.
A well to do neighborhood in Little Rock, AR recently has had a huge increase in breaking and entering. Three guys who have since been caught were breaking into home, one armed with a shotgun. One woman was accosted by this group while reading a kindle on her front porch. They took the kindle and other valuables that were inside the house.
Funny why the military & ex military are not all over this thread.
Funny why those would say yes to the last question are not all over this thread.
Funny how those who have been raped or beaten are not all over this thread.
Having a plan is good. Assuming things going to plan is silly, it never does.
The OP really thinks those that could answer yes to the last question will do so??? Bawahahaha They prolly quit reading after seeing the question in the OP.
[soap box]
Always fun for seeing different cultures be totally ignorant of other cultures. I think many cultures are absolutely evil, corrupt, stupid, etc. I do understand that they are, why the might be that way, that they like it just fine, etc. I never wonder why they don’t do it like I do which is the only correct & reasonable way to do things… he he he.
But…
I don’t mess with them about is unless they are trying to hurt me or mine.
I don’t go and ignore their rules when I am there. Or try to change them. If I can’t take being around that particular thing, I just don’t go there. My bosses can’t make me go. One of the perks of free will.
As to all the plans & thinking about things in advance that is to make us feel in control of ourselves is BS. Until you have been there, done that & survived, you do not know.
The survival instinct is very powerful & very seldom under our rational control with out a lot of training. Not thinking.
Long & slow buildup leads to fear which responds to rational, thought out moves more often that sudden fright which leads more often to instinctive reaction.
Many LEO’s go full careers & never shoot in earnest.
Some have multiple deaths on them.
Many people go through full lives without an ounce of trouble. But more than you would think or hear about are not so lucky and many of the scenarios happen to one poor person in just a few years. But they do happen.
Ever play the odds? Never will win the lotto that way. But someone always wins. One of the fools.
Ever play any life & death odds in an auto? If you drive at all, you have played some really bad odds and never been hammered for it but some folks are in the wrong place at the wrong time many times.
Never needed a safety device of any kind in over 50+ years of driving, flying, boating, motorcycle riding, even though I have been in crashes, actually hurt several times, not once was any safety device responsible or capable of protecting me. What are the odds of that. I guess I do not need any safety devices & NO one else should need or want safety devices either. Especially since all people are reasonable, predictable and in my world, not ever going to do anything that I might need protection from. Bawahahaha … right… [/soap box]
OK – Yes, yes, yes and yes. And put in that situation again - yes. And I read the whole thread.
Speaking for myself, I usually avoid saying anything in these discussions because there isn’t much to say. I don’t feel good about it or bad, I don’t think about it every day but its always in the back of the brain somewhere - it needed done and I did it, pure and simple. Sometimes in discussions with other who have “been there, done that” I’ll get involved but there isn’t a lot I can offer to anyone else.
If you think its never justified to take a life, I can’t convince you. And if you are the other extreme and think “good deal” there isn’t much I can convince you of either; your mind is already nowhere near mine. For the 99% who hope they never – so do I.
PS – to the OP and a couple others – even today if something wakes me in the middle of the night the first thing in my hand is a baseball bat. Always has been, always will be. The gun is right there; no issue. But to me its still more to fill the freezer unless its last resort time. I carry but I look for a chance to avoid or get the drop and run the situation. Don’t get me wrong, I will shoot - but it was always my last choice and always will be. I’d call it more a rural mindset, and growing up in a time where even the guy breaking into your house or robbing you would play by some sort of “rules” — but for what its worth its there.
And I’d be reluctant to classify those fellows as “mere” burglars precisely because they are going out prepared for trouble (and possibly actively looking for it). What some people don’t seem to realize is that the basic psychology of an armed robber (which is what a true home invader is, at a minimum) is different from the psychology of a simple burglar. Armed robbers aren’t frightened of violence. They tend to be adrenaline junkies and get off on the “rush” of doing dangerous things, and they also enjoy the power that being armed allows them to exercise over unarmed innocents. That makes them a whole lot more dangerous than someone who just wants “stuff” and not trouble.
I mostly agree with what you have said and are the reason I said, “prolly.” Also because there are those times the authorities were not invited to properly vet the occurrence and bringing something like that to the internet would be the height of folly.
This simile ( :smack: ) reflects my feelings on the many people who have said this to me, “They, he, she, can’t / won’t do this or that because it is not right, against the law, no one believes, still believes or acts that way in reality.”
Because they’re your children, because they’re innocent people…how far does this idea extend?
I’m Roman Catholic and searching the catechism, I see it seems the official stance doesn’t disagree with yours. I still don’t think I have an obligation to keep a gun around the house. My parents were devout Catholics too and never had one when we were kids.
Allowing your children to die in order to stick to your pacifist ideals is the height of stupidity and is highly immoral in my opinion, and, I would guess, in almost every culture on Earth. As for how far it extends in my opinion - here is Judaism’s take on it “Din rodef”
Thanks, Terr.
It has to be dependent on the circumstances of when it happens, or you would need to be armed 24/7 on the off-chance you come upon anyone being hurt.
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Yes, yes, yes, no. In the final analysis, my people like ourselves more than we like anyone else in the whole world.
A couple years ago, when there was just 2 of us, the break-in plan was to run out the exterior door on the master bedroom with phone and car keys. Drive out the back gate, call 911, sit in the car in front of the house, await cavalry. Easy, fast, and the safest plan possible. Take my shit, it’s insured and replaceable. The few things I care about are not going to be stolen in a 2 minute smash and grab.
Today, the baby sleeps down the hall. The baby cannot be allowed to die, as that would be the extinction of both our family lines, which must be avoided at all costs, including our own lives or those of strangers. If the bad guy is still outside, which by far the more likely event, our old plan stands: grab the baby and split. Easy, fast, safest.
But if we fail to be sufficiently vigilant and someone gets into the house before the baby is secured, we have the unenviable obligation to loudly and aggressively confront them. If the guy who kicks in the door is some silly confused drunk or an unarmed crackhead looking to swipe a laptop, he’ll run or get bonked with an Estwing until docile. If he’s armed, he’s got a second to change his mind and run. Yelling and pointing guns while standing into the living room in your underwear is not the safest course of action, but what’re you gonna do?
The genetic preservation imperative is the closest thing our family has to religion. You picked the wrong house; we’re alive and, well, fuck you. The pacifist position is probably morally superior, but takes a strength of conviction that is inimical to our nature.
The thing that gives me cold sweats now is finding a gunsafe that a clever, persistent kid can’t open and it’s not clear that one will materialize within the next 6 months.