Following what is simplistic and absurd logic in the first place, my point to her was that people are the same everywhere in the sense that any population of whatever race, colour or creed contains ‘good’ and ‘bad’ people. You can believe in anything or nothing and still be a good or bad person. How then can a random natural disaster ‘pick out’ those who ‘deserve’ to die a horrible death?
Remain in good conscience and with my faith as an atheist and a humanitarian? Sure.
Otherwise, I would what? Become a Christian?
There is a large difference between daydreaming of karmic revenge on someone and acting out such fantasies (not that I am in control of such things anyway.) I hardly think that qualifies me as a sick bastard.
Band name! 
:::d&r:::
Are you being sarcastic or not ?
I’ve been having some health problems and am taking a bit of time off, and got a little money for Giftmas, so here I am. Ta da. For a while, anyway.
Not bad, but the author of the reply doesn’t explicitly address the question of non-believers–and presumably, his answer isn’t official RC doctrine.
One of the reforms of Vatican II was to explicitly state that non-believers could, in fact, achieve salvation:
This has been my understanding of their position for quite some time–but I may be wrong. Perhaps a resident Catholic (or someone who knows their official beliefs better then I) could clarify…
This is a broad outline of Orthodox beliefs–it doesn’t address the specific issue of whether or not a non-believer can acheive salvation.
Not only does this not state that non-believers can’t acheive salvation, it also doesn’t seem to be an official statement of belief for their church–it’s a bible passage that is linked to from a page that says “The UCC therefore receives the historic creeds and confessions of our ancestors as testimonies, but not tests of the faith. Linked on the right of this page are some of those testimonies.”
In other words, the page that links to that so much as says that it isn’t a required aspect of the faith.
Maybe because it’s a complicated issue, with a long history (the Catholic church has held several positions) and a wide variety of opinions?
See this post.
Not sarcastic. I will be supporting some with donations. From Catholic Relief Services site:
Whoooooosh. I stowed my +5 Sword of Inquisition many moons ago. So did many other Catholics.
Nuns are Catholic. Fundamentalists don’t consider Catholics to be Christians.
Utter bullshit !
Sorry, my hyperbole. 
This is why I shouldn’t get into the Pit…
But yeah, that woman’s a complete arse.
ducks out now
Total bullshit.
Any other doctrinal statements you’d like to make as Official Representative of the Vast Fundamentalist Conspiracy?
I seem to recall Jesus telling a story about two sons who were asked by their father to do some work around the farm. One said, “Sure, I’m on it” but then did nothing. The other refused, but then went and did the work anyway.
Of course, it is the latter who did his father’s will.
Many who say “Lord, Lord” will be told “I don’t know you.” While others who never said the name of the Lord will be welcomed.
Rickjay’s at least partly right. Some fundies do believe that catholics are not christians. Just read some Jack Chick.
BTW, does anyone know how much hell is mentioned in the new testament?
I only know of one time, which is when Jesus is using it in a parable. However, just because it’s in a parable doesn’t mean it’s true- the only point that should be taken from a parable is the point it tries to make. Jesus took the hell element from Greek culture, if I’m not mistaken.
That sounds similar to the “When I was hungry you fed me, when I was naked you gave me clothes, etc” part. That is one of the best places to make an argument that nonbelievers will be saved. Some holy people don’t care about those in need, but some who wouldn’t be considered holy do care and they’re the ones who Jesus says he knows.
Here’s what Jesus said, sweetie:
(Redding mine)
Do this and you will live.
Jesus specifically said that all you have to do is love God and love your neighbor. Was he lying?
If you’ll check out the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats you’ll see that he defined the two commandments as synonomous. The way to love God is to love your neighbor (“Whatever you did to the least among you…”). So all you have to do to be saved is to love your neighbor.
It would be a pretty shitty God indeed who gave a flying fuck what religion somebody was. How would anyone be supposed to know, after all? God has given no shred of proof that any religion is true, so to make “salvation” conditional on a specific belief would be to turn salvation into a crueal and capricious guessing game. God might as well demand to know what number he’s thinking between one and a trillion. It would be completely irrational and unjust.
And yes, if you think that you get to go to heaven for your guess and everyone who doesn’t guess the same number as you is bound for eternal torture regardless of what kind of human being either of you is, if that’s what you believe then you have a mean, sadistic and bigoted faith.
Are you illiterate?
That was from a parable that Jesus told, and it was about a lord of a household coming back from a trip and then punishing a servant that had been acting very badly during the interim.
Now, Jesus may have said that implying God will do the same, but he never specifically said that. Many of Jesus’ parables were advice for how to live in the here and now, and didn’t promise divine punishment or reward, but rather a fulfilled life.
Yes but this has nothing to do with what was being said. I said that a fundamental tenet of Christianity is a not a vengeful god that strikes down unbelievers. A fundamental tenet of Christianity is that people who openly defy God’s law will be punished in the afterlife.
Sometimes God will punish in the mortal realm as well, but that is rare, and if you’ve ever read the bible you’d see god let’s many wicked men free and many good men die. A tenet of our faith is not an actively vengeful god in the world of mortals.
This is all of what bothers me and truly makes me sick about some deity based religions and Christianity specifically, they are all based on this primitive and archaic idea of the divine smiting of the enemy or nonbelievers by some entity- somebodies God is always favoring them in life and competition and making them “the chosen”. It holds man in perpetuity through this mythology to the archane time and violent tribal worldview that these unchanging and invariably “infallible” tomes and religions were bourne of. I look at war and most religions and see different sides of the same coin, it really is a disservice to humanity and the blight of religion.
Hear! Hear!
BTW, while I’m not one to normally agree with RickJay’s view on religion, I have to admit that he is correct in saying that some fundamentalist sects do view Catholicism as being next door to Satanism, and certainly not Christian.
That is not what he said. You added a very important qualifier that drastically changed his message.