I’ve known some guys who take up ballet, gymnastics, or other stereotypically-feminine extracurriculars precisely because so many of the people involved in them are girls, and they’re hoping to benefit romantically.
Honestly, all I’m getting from these lengthy posts is ballet+acting+male=gay male.
Aggregate of what facts? Are you honestly saying that you can be a male and an actor OR a male and do ballet, but to be all three you must be gay?
You can’t say that, and then say this in the same breath…
You’re literally ridiculing him right there.
Look, I’m not trying to be an ass, but your claim and your attempt to back it up are weak, at best and push the line of being offensive and homophobic. The feeling I got when I read the OP is that you were offended by finding out male performer you considered to be a tough guy took ballet lessons and you’re trying to justify it by telling yourself he must have secretly been gay, because why else would he do something so unmanly.
I skimmed through that thread. It’s not that you didn’t communicate your POV, you did, just fine. The issue I see, that I see is that you’re unwilling to allow an organic discussion which may drift a little here and there.
IOW, if you are going to start threads, you’re going to have to understand that people are going to toss in their opinions. Opinions that may come from a slightly different premise, but the poster still feels they’re relevant. You also have to be open to answers that may not make sense to you. Trying to shut down any discussion that doesn’t conform to a strict set of guidelines that you haven’t informed anyone about just makes it seem like you’re stubborn or you’re looking for an argument.
Me too. With possible exception in cases where the subject is a raging homophobe in a position of power.
I’m a gay man; if the OP said these posts to me in person I would be walking out of the room, not because he draws a conclusion based on flimsy evidence, but because of the very apparent negative attitude towards the possibility of an admired masculine man being gay. That’s my conclusion based on what I’m reading here, which is more evidence than he had for his conclusion.
You’ve outed yourself, sport.
Joey P said much of what I was about to say. I barely know who Tupac is and have no opinion about or interest in the question of whether he was gay. But it’s hard to read the OP without seeing a bunch of ugly stereotypes behind it.
- The OP can tell a person’s sexual orientation by how they talk.
- A man who is interested in ballet is probably gay.
- A gay man cannot exhibit “bravado” or “machismo”.
- Being gay would “tarnish” someone’s legacy.
The “pink tutu” comment was particularly repulsive.
What fucking difference would it make if he was?
A convicted rapist, a racist piece of human excrement, a vicious, violent gang member who richly reaped what he spent his lifetime sowing.
That goes, to some extent, for any hypocrisy. If you find out a woman had an abortion, it’s no one’s business. If they’ve been running for office on the religious right, pro-life, abortion is murder ticket, then yeah, tell the world.
Not probably. He states it as fact and said he believes it ‘totally and permanently’. Furthermore, it’s not just him. He has decided that all of us feel that way as well as shown by when he said that if we watch the video “you will be unable to honestly deny the truth”.
One of the things that really rattles me is when someone tells me what I’m thinking. If I didn’t say (or type) something, you don’t get to do it for me.
The funny thing is, even if I wanted to deny that he’s gay, that just comes across as not only homophobic (as in ‘he can’t be, he wouldn’t be, I refuse to believe it’) and offensive but…I just don’t care, like, at all.
I think ‘deny’ is the word that’s tripping me up here. It suggests that being gay is wrong.
Go watch some Will and Grace or Modern Family and start normalizing something that appears to bother you.
TLDR
Maybe he was gay. So fucking what.
Aww, don’t be too hard on yourself, Roseanne Barr blamed Ambian, then Anti-Semitism, then Obama, so you still have some cards to play yet.
All male ballet dancers are gay? That’s gonna be a big old shock to Mikhail Baryshnikov, who has four kids (one with Jessica Lange and you’d figure she’d be able to spot a man on the downlow) and has, over the years, basically got more ass than a toilet seat.
The history of male black dancers is long and vast–okay, so a lot of them specialized in tap but there’s a respectable cadre of ballet and modern dancers in that mix, way too many to just assume that the lot of them are gay on account of being dancers.
I’m sorry, but this is just ignorant. Don’t link to a 36 minute video and exclaim “OMG, Tupac is gay because ballet!” unless you can point to a timestamp marker in that video where he espouses his love of the D. FFS, you can’t have a ballet company without someone to be the base of all those lifts and any smart, horny, flexible guy who can handle the physical workload knows that being around a bunch of bendy sweaty ladies who’re very casual about physical contact is a great way to get your needs met.
Are you suggesting that **Ambivalid **has some personal issues to work out? 'Cuz he’s sounding like a real closet case to me. Um, not that there’s anything wrong with it.
Castigate if you must but I’m not going to sit idly by and allow these unbelievable mischaracterizations to remain unchallenged. As ultimately pointless as it may be towards changing any perspectives here, I cant let a false picture be painted of me.
Im going to tackle these subjects one at a time, try to be as succint ss possible and end this exercise is masochism.
The ballet and drama thing: When i say that they are only facts that were helpful in aggregate with other pieces of info, i am referring to all the non verbal body language and facial expressions and everything. As well as some of the accounts of his true identity that flourish online (Jesus fucking christ is there just dark dark shit all over the web. The vast majority of these conspiracy theory pushers are snakes just trying to exploit a dead mans name. But there are a handful that, when you watch them again after the interview, have at least a plausibility that wasnt there before. And what the ever loving fuck? I definitely did not suggest every male ballet dancer was gay. Im talking about the most legendary thug rapoer in the world who built his empire in part on a macho, manly gang banger persona being a ballet dancer BECAME a relevant factor in convincing me of what i now believe only after seeing the old interview footage and looking back in hindsight at all the rumors and whispers and impossible to ever substantiate claims. IOW, it was only an informing factor in aggregate. On its own it informed on only the facts that he was born with stage presence and talent as a performer.
Regarding the significance or lack thereof, of noting Tupac’s true sexual orientation: this is something almost singularly unique to Tupac as an individual star. If someone were to tell me that, well, pretty much anyone i can possibly think of, were to be a closeted gay person, I would probably not remember being told about it 10 minutes later. The reasons for my slack jawed amazement with Tupac have nothing to do with prejudice or really anything negative whatsoever. I am astonished because I dont understand how he could have pulled off what he did if he really was in the belly of the beast his whole life and eventually worked his way up out of that belly, on to the top of the beast, grabbed it by the horns and took command.
He wasnt closeted for a negative or fear based or pathology based reason. He was not in the open with his sexuality for all the right reasons. Admirable reasons. Selfless reasons. If he said fuck it, im gonna take care of me fuck everyone else, then yea, he would have worn his gayness on his sleeve with aggressive pride. But he cared about much more than just himself.
Its NOT any sort of news in the slightest when someone, even a celebrity, comes out as gay. It IS a big deal when Tupac tirns out to have been gay. I own every album he’s ever put out, i have followed him outside of his rap and i have always admired the man and person he was. And that admiration has only increased, and increased significantly, after watching him in HS.
One last thing: what exactly was repulsive about me sharing the story of what i experienced when i first read about his early ballet? Prior to that HS interview, i had an understanding of Tupac that turned out to be incomplete. And since all i had was that incomplete understanding, my mind immediately met a brick wall of comedic absurdity combining these two very disparate aspects of a person that my brain was screaming was absurd but that i couldnt simply hand wave away. Both were true. I see no bigotry or prejudice of any kind in what i said. I still get a chuckle out of that image.
ETA: I think part of what is going on here is that most of you (or many, at least) only have a passing knowledge of Tupac and know he was a rapper, know he got killed, lnow he was extremely famous, etc but not much else that distinguishes him from other rappers both of his time and of today. I dont understand why my posts NEVER seem to be given the benefit of the doubt. I mean, ive been here 8 years, have I displayed ANY homophobia, racism, biigotry of any kind in that time? If i have its only because im human and most humans share a degree of those flaws. Buts its not anywhere on my personal radar.
**SmartAleq/B] I feel like you didnt read what i wrote in good faith whatsoever. How on earth could you have if after all that ive been taking the time to try to articulate, all you take away from my posts is that I’m accusing Tupac of being gay because he did ballet in HS? I just cant continue endlessly to repeat myself. . Read my words please? No filter, all the way thru. I explain myself in ways that would preclude your need to post these mistaken posts.
OK, I get that you think you are being unfairly misunderstood. But I don’t understand this paragraph at all. If you care, please explicate further what “right,” “admirable” and “selfless” reasons he had for being in the closet, and what qualifies those reasons for those adjectives. If it’s because his positive messages would have been ignored, that doesn’t do it for me, although maybe it does for you. Did any of his positive messages speak against homophobia (a genuine question)?
Yes, I don’t know much (or care much) at all about Tupac either as a performer or as a person. Maybe a couple of clear sentences on why that is important would also help.
I adored Tupac in the 90s and he was at the top of my music rotation in high school and college. I’m unconvinced by any of the evidence put forward in this thread – even if there are some non-sexual mannerisms, affectations, and cultural associations/interests that may be more common among gay men (or bisexual men, or other categories), such things provides zero or virtually zero information about an individual case.
So, I know Pac. I know that the fact that Pac went to art school dogged him his whole career. There are people in the hip hop community to this day that claim he wasn’t legit and that he was a phony because of it. I also know that no one seems to have credible claims to having been in a male relationship with him, but there are plenty of women who claim this. Having gone to art school myself, both for high school and college, I know how often men in the arts just get assumed to be gay just because they are artistic. I think that Pac was putting on a front to an extent, but I don’t think that made him gay. I don’t think it doesn’t. But I am a little weirded out by that video being definitive proof for you.
I probably should have at least included this somewhere: even if i had only seen the interview and never discovered why he was being intetviewed and learned about the ballet, I would still be be convinced. All that the ballet aspect adds is a further certainty in my conviction. Of course its not proof. Just like of course this isnt a court of law. I didnt mean for the ballet dancing to take on a leading role in this story (and honestly, it wasnt totally in my control whether that happened or not, as I’ve been shown).
ETA: mods can feel free to close this thread if no one objects.
FWIW, I don’t think anything you’ve said here makes you a bad person, Ambivalid. But again, I see no way for you to explain your way out of whatever conclusions some people have already drawn.
Moderator Action
Thread closed per OP’s request.