Don’t get the wind knocked out of you by patting yourself on the back too much. The primary thrust of the debate you wanted to start in the OP dealt with NATO and whether Article 5 applied in a situation like this. Also, you seemed to envisage Israel outright sinking one or all of the ships.
As for “knowing the facts,” 9 people died, not 19.
Personally I read a clear implication that the Israelis do not mess with the water and electricity supplies to Gaza. Hence his (paraphrased) “doesn’t it show something that they do not?”. The simple answer to that is, “doesn’t it show something that they do severely limit the supplies and have largely bombed the infrastructure into oblivion. Never mind that the plans to cut the electricity supply was only stopped by the High Court in Israel”.
62 years ago was 1948. Just so we’re clear here, are you suggesting that genocide should have been committed in '48 and that it should be committed now in order to destroy the state of Israel?
I think the key here is what was actually on the vessels. The practice of barring the transportation of building supplies is abhorrent to me, and frankly gave the flotilla a perfect excuse not to submit to Israeli customs searches.
The UNCLSO is less of a proper international treaty and more of a codification of international norms. Nations can claim 12 miles of territorial waters (or more, in fact) regardless of whether they’re signatories.
And I would put this whole brouhaha over “flattening” in that category. It is a hijack and you and the Captain will both stop posting about it in this thread.
I just quoted some of it, again, in the post you just responded to.
1 : sufficient for a specific requirement <adequate taxation of goods>; also : barely sufficient or satisfactory <her first performance was merely adequate>
The metric is providing enough food for a populace, if you’d like to use another word than “adequate”, you’re certainly welcome to. But you can’t use “adequate” to mean “more than adequate”.
The balance between security and consignments has already been cited and elaborated upon.
Rather obviously Israel can’t go into Gaza until it’s via an armed incursion, and equally obviously people can take metal pipes even if someone else screws them in.
Because it’s you making the claim.
Again, an occupying power has the responsibility for maintaining certain things with the cooperation of the occupied power. Hamas can not be trusted to cooperate. Therefore…
Not a problem.
Did any of you see the Turkish reporter hold the assassination list up to the camera before the satellite was cut on board the Mavi Marmara?
Why has this not been discussed in the threads. I don’t even think you know about this either?
He was reporting to the camera live that the list had fallen from one of the commando’s.
He held it up to cameras with the names and photos of those on board who were to be assassinated.
Obviously all of the reporters on board’s tapes have been confiscated but it went out live beforehand.
Armed commando’s dropping out of helicopters were obviously not dropping in for tea.
They had a mission. Be interesting to see the names of the dead and if they match with the list.
This sort of inflammatory language is not, strictly, against the rules, but in the context of an emotional thread, it does nothing to promote the discuission.
FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS THREAD, ANY FURTHER INFLAMMATORY REMARKS WILL BE WARNED. In addition, if this keeps up, we may move to issuing Warnings for snide comments and snark.
This is too important an issue to continue with the stupids cheap shots and **BBQ Pit **language.
If you need rant, take it to the BBQ Pit.
[ /Moderating ]
Families of those attacked on Turkish aid ship devastated
Protests in front of Israeli consulate in Istanbul last until midnight
Turkish PM Erdoğan says Israel ‘must be punished’ for raid on Gaza aid ship
Hozni Mubarak has just announced that Rafah crossing will be opened immediately and will not be closed again.
All humanitarian aid and help to be given to Gazans immediately.
Arab Press.
This is ahead of the Arab League meeting later today.
Good on you Hosni!!!
Italy is sending two aid ships now to Gaza and Israel is threatening it as we speak.
Egyptians overjoyed
We’re well into a realm of a Conspiracy Theory now. IDF commandos dropped onto the ships carrying pieces of paper with assassination targets on them. Seriously. They weren’t asked to memorize anybody’s face before hand, they were told to go onto the ship and then start consulting kill cards. And those people just happened to be among those who attacked the commandos with lethal force when they boarded the ship, what luck!
Rather obviously the purpose of their boarding action was to enforce the blockade. The CT that they were there to carry out targeted killings is odd. But it is disturbing how quickly some CT’s spread in certain media pools.
Interestingly enough the fact is that Egypt could have opened the Rafah crossing whenever they wanted and yet all your blame is on Israel.
Of course, yet more nations attempting to violate a valid military blockade is not a good thing, and people who desire peace do not wish such things. Let’s hope that cooler heads prevail and we’re not going to see a war because some nations simply had to violate a blockade of a genocidal, rejectionist terror organization.
Bad times.
This is a topic of interest to me.
Quite aside from the partisan sniping back-and-forth - what, exactly, is the “legal” situation under international law concering interception of blocade-runners in international waters?
So far, I’ve seen & quoted the restatement of the laws of the sea that appears to me at least to state that such interception is legal.
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea appears to state the opposite, but Israel is not a signatory. OTOH, it may be the case that it is a mere codification of customary international law. OTOH, the restatement also appears to be a codification of customary international law …
In short, is there any support (assuming purely for the purpose of this exercise that the blocade is fully “legal”) for the oft-stated proposition that the Israeli boarding is “illegal”?
I’m sure we have some other Arabic speakers here, but this is not useful for most of the people you’re trying to communicate with. In reference to your earlier posts, some of Erdogan’s comments are being included in the front-page news stories on the raid.
Egypt the US’s biggest ally apart from Saudi sides with Turkey.
Let’s see what Saudi’s do in the Arab League.
Obama
make your choice…
Israel your ‘special friend’ or the rest of the civilized world. The choice is your Mr President.
Oh THAT. That’s the defence? That could, dubiously, be applied to the flotilla but not to the masses of Aid that Israel refuses to let through the borders (both that they control and via pressure on Egypt).
So, in your opinion, adequate food supply is “enough to make sure they don’t die”? Note that your own definition calls for a “specific requirement”. You seem to think that should be “not die”. Why do you choose that instead of, say, “maintain a functionally nutritious or balanced diet”?
Yes, we are well aware of the danger of coriander, jam, chocolate and fruit juice, amongst other things.
Rather obviously they shouldn’t have bombed the fuck out of it then. The way it stands now: Israel destroyed it, Israel won’t go in and fix it and, best of all, Israel is denying the Palestinians the materials to fix it themselves. Oh - and Israel won’t let the people out of there.
I’m claiming that water, hygiene and power have been severely affected. I offered cites from well known news sources and humanitarian agencies. You took my claims and decided that it meant something else and demanded cites for that.
You’re big on pointing out when others use logical fallacies. Hows about you remind us of which one you used there?
Again, is Israel an Occupying Power? Apparently, according to you, if an Israeli politician says they are not I am not supposed to believe them. Do you have any cites of Israel admitting they are an Occupying Power? I mean, I’ve asked several times in this thread whether they are or not. If Israel does not see themselves as the Occupying Power they can hardly use the rules regarding occupying powers to explain a blockade, can they?
That is the link to the Egyptian press about Rafah, and the Italian aid convoy is also there.
I’m assuming you mean ‘in the Middle East.’
Why can’t it be both? Atrocities are committed by all three sides: America, Muslim nations and Israel!
I’ll ask again: what did the Freedom Flotilla people expect? They announced their intentions beforehand, Israel stated in response that it would stop these vessels. The Freedom Flotilla proceeded with their operation, and the Israelis responded like they said they would!
What did they hope to accomplish, other than bringing a shitstorm down upon not only themselves, but condemnation of Israel by Arab nations (again and again and again…)???