CNN is showing video right now where you can see the Israeli soldiers being attacked as the rappel to the deck of the ship. The video isn’t clear enough to see any weapons, but they were clearly attacked and beaten.
The trouble is that Israel doesn’t really do battles, dear, they’re more one-sided than that. Massacres, that sort of thing. Difficult to lose one of those.
This fellah was an ambassador of HMG: http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
Please learn the definition of the logical fallacy you’re claiming. Pointing out that a group is not credible is not an ‘ad hominem’ fallacy when the issue at hand is precisely their credibility. You have a map with pretty circles drawn on it, and you are demanding that we disprove something for which no proof has been given beyond circles drawn on a map by a group with no credibility on the issue.
It was, as the facts show. The north was not subjected to bombardment like the south or parts of Beiruit were, nor was it subject to invasion as the south to the Litani was.
Which, of course, doesn’t address your original fiction that kicked off this tangent: you claimed that ‘the whole of Lebanon’ was ‘flattened’. That is simply not true by any stretch of the imagination, but since you won’t retract your claim, I’m not sure there’s much purpose in me pointing it out more.
On what planet is this true? 
If anything, the history of Israel is exceptionally rich in battles.
If the weight of the evidence made any reasonable person believe that there were actual militants on the ship, that they planned to wield weapons to provoke an Israeli response, and they were actually succeeding in maiming and killing the commandos then I would not sympathize with them. I would see them as responsible for this event and want their organization disbanded with the planners and leaders arrested.
I also hope that the individuals in the IDF responsible for planning and executing this massacre are arrested and put on trial, any soldiers that made deadly mistakes be punished and UN control be placed over shipments into and out of Gaza with UN security council guidelines on what is permissible for entry and exit. It’s apparent from the results here that maybe the IDF can’t handle the job.
I saw that too but I don’t know at what point during the sequence of events that video was taken.
You can observe pretty well from a helicopter. But as it’s a translation into English from the Hebrew, a Hebrew speaker’s recounting of what the original article stated passes muster.
Of course. If you attack soldiers with clubs and knives, try to capture them, etc… it’s a pretty reasonable assumption that you’re going to get shot.
How is anything I said “false to facts” because of what you just cited. Please explain instead of just dumping an article of unknown provenance and shouting “checkmate”.
Which is a license to attack anyone and everyone on Earth, including other Israelis since everyone is a potential threat. That’s the philosophy of a predator or paranoid, not someone trying to defend themselves.
Your attitude is the same as Bush’s; “We don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.” No need to check the facts; just attack.
I’m not “thrilled” about the whole thing, but yeah, I’m starting to lean towards the theory that this mess was initiated and orchestrated with the intent of making the commandos fight, and someone somewhere was hoping some people would be killed, to make some sort of point. Should the Israelis have boarded a ship in international waters? I’d say no. However, once they were on board, let them do their search. let them do their inspection. File a formal complaint later. You don’t fight them unless you WANT someone killed.
Okay, one last time: was the whole of Lebanon flattened?
No. That isn’t true. You said it, but it still isn’t true.
But never mind, this thread isn’t about the 2006 war and if you’re going to maintain that the entirety of Lebanon was bombed to rubble in 2006, I can’t stop you.
Sounds a tiny bit biased, don’t you think?
I mean, what a moral coward one has to be to go to the extreme and accuse the dead people of planning it ahead and, in the same breath, give the killers a pass. But, I guess if the story of “they were thrwoing stones” worked I really do’t see why “they had sticks and knives” would not.
I haven’t said word one about Lebanon.
Good old DEBKAFile:
Why was Israeli raider force unprepared for violent resistance?
It seems rather likely that it was. The action itself was a political protest/PR move, and at least some “peace activists” decided to attack the commandos who were boarding their vessel. It seems beyond the pale that people attacked armed commandos with the expectation that violence would not result.
I’d agree that they shouldn’t have, but I’m not convinced by the blithe claims that it was necessarily illegal.
[
](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce)
[
](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce)
[
](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce)
Ah, you are correct, I had your argument confused with Captain Ridley. Don’t know how I confused that, ah well.
Anyways, the false-to-facts claim you made was about how the enforcement of a blockade and the distribution of consignments is “supposed to work.”
I proved that you were wrong by citing the actual law on the matter that directly addressed and rebutted your claim.
Your argument that it was “an article of unknown provenance” was an absurdity, as calling the 4th Geneva Convention a document whose source is, in any way, in question? Well… it’s rather ridiculous. As it claiming that when the 4th GC explicitly states how consignments are to be distributed, that it doesn’t directly address your contrary claims about how it’s supposed to happen.
Moral coward? Never been called that before. These were armed soldiers. What sort of MORON would attack them with a stick or a knife? If they had simply complied, they might have been detained for a while or maybe arrested. But they would still be alive.
If by “grown-ups” you mean the Israel Can Do No Wrong Brigade, no doubt they’ll be along shortly.
Meanwhile, fuck Israel, its murderous practices and the International Community that lacks the balls to put an end to them.
RIP all of those who gave their lives trying to helps the Gazans.
Unless the video is completely out of context, the Israeli soldiers clearly had reason to fear for their lives. One had been thrown overboard, and another had been tossed 30’ onto the deck. The latest video clearly shows groups of multiple “peace activists” bashing Israeli soldiers with iron rods.
I’ll wait for the experts to weigh in on the legality of the boarding, but once onboard, I can’t see that it was smart to go after them like they did.
Many of the people fighting may have had no idea that their side had initiated anything (both IDF and protesters). Many of the people fighting may have thought that the other side was going to kill them so they fought back with everything they had. Some of the people fighting had pistols and the other side had jack shit. Many of the people that needlessly died may have thought they were defending themselves from wildly shooting IDF soldiers.
The IDF fucked up, pure and simple. The protesters who started fighting also fucked up pure and simple. Everything after that is making the best decision in a bad situation.
But I like your analysis better, judging from your past couple of posts you buy the idea that a bunch of morons planned to initiate a violent protest and successfully manipulated highly trained IDF commandos into going for it.