Turtledove: The Victorious Opposition (Spoilers Akimbo)

Oh, and Flora’s friend Angelina Tresca was killed in the Remembrance Day riots. And Dowling saw General Pershing get assassinated.

WTF? How did i miss that? :wink:
At least now she’s dead and will shut up about that. Good God, woman, no one would care.

There was also the Lincoln character. who died when the US took Sequoyah. (which i think is a cooler name than Oklahoma, but i digress). Was McSweeney the double Medal of Honor winner/crazy religious guy?

Anyone think the Hispanics will end up in camps, also?

Yes to your first question. No to the second. How could they? They’re too valuable. And their kids wouldn’t be Hitl^H^H^H^H^Freedom Youth if the parents were undesirable, or even expendable.

As for the politics of this version of WWII, it appears obvious that the CSA and France will attack the USA and Germany. So the USA will resume its previous alliance with Germany. Japan has fought two wars with the US and there’s no reason to assume won’t welcome a chance to fight again under better circumstances. This will leave the UK as the only major neutral power; making them the equivalent of the US in our history. My guess is they’ll eventually end up aligning with the US and Germany.

No, remember, the UK is under the control of the Fascist Silver Shirts now. (which was, IRL, an American organization, btw)

On which side will Japan fall. In the book, they’ve fought the U.S. to a standstill in a naval war, and they have taken over the Phillippines already from the Spanish. What goals do they have left to achieve?

I don’t see what Japan could possibly gain from Attacking either the US or CS. In this time line they have acheived everything they wanted…chased the european powers out of East Asia, took the Phillipines, Indochina, Indonesia. I don’t remember if they’ve conquered Manchuria. But they might fight a war against the Russians over the Russian Far East. Since Russia is an ally of France and England, and France and England are allies of the CSA, that could mean the US and Japan could be co-belligerants.

That would make dramatic sense…characters wondering what the US is doing cozying up to Uncle Joe Hirohito, when just a few years ago they were fighting him. But in this timeline, Japan gains the most by attacking Russia and China, not the US.

Good call, I think that you are absolutely right about the Japanese being the euqivalent to the Russians in our version of the history. Could this mean that we’ll have a cold war against the Japanese? I wonder how that will play out?

No, Churchhill is in charge, and was put in charge because he was a reactionary, but not as crazy as the Silver Shirts. The UK vowed to help France fight Germany. I don’t think France has much of a prayer fighting Germany, unless they went all blitzkreig (or…Le Blitzkreig) and then quickly sued for peace.

Japan has surpremacy to gain, and they have a larger resource field to work with compared to our world. But, again, Britain still has a few colonies over there, and Japan may want them more than a fight with the US.

One question, what’s up with “David” MacAurthur, instead of Douglass? Does anyone have the scoop on why Turtledove changes his name?

Slightly different circumstances. TR lives longer in this timeline as well, the soft drink of choice seems to be “Dr Hopper”, and someone other than Babe Ruth makes the remark about having had a better year than the president. And that’s because baseball is not the national pastime. :frowning:

Oh, and it’s Daniel MacArthur.

Now, a question about the next book: Who’s going to end up in Pinkard’s death camp?

One of our guys, either Cincinnatus or Scipio, has to. HT usually shows both sides of a situation, and I don’t see how he can avoid this.

I think it will be Cincinnatus. I don’t think he’s stranded in the CSA just to show us how awful it is to be a non-imprisoned black man under Featherston’s regime. Scipio knows how to play the game, so unless Anne Colleton drops a dime on him (admittedly likely), he’ll probably be able to stay one step ahead of the mob.

Cincinnatus, OTOH, has spent years in the USA. He wasn’t treated equally even there, but he still gained a lot of confidence and a definite sense of self. As soon as some Freedom Party member notices this “uppity n*****”…I’m afraid he’s doomed. :frowning:

I think that Scipio is going to end up in the death camp. I suspect that Cincinnatus will probably escape. My reasons are that since he is in Kentucky, it will be much easier for him to slip across the border, especially when Lucullus and friends start fighting back. Also, when the U.S. Army invades, Kentucky will be one of the first pieces of territory that they can take and hold.

Scipio probably won’t be spared because he knows how to play the game. It seems that Featherston is gearing up for his timeline’s version of the holocaust. Seeing that this is the case, he will probably try to wipe out the black population of the Confederacy.

Also, Scipio is in Georgia, and thus the heart of the Confederacy and therefore his home is less likely to be occupied by U.S. forces in time to prevent his death in the camps.

On a different note, what do you think will happen in Canada?

Couldn’t say. But I wish Mary Pomeroy would kick herself instead of patting herself on the back. Because of her, Moss is now bitter and remorseless, and that won’t be a good thing for those who oppose the USA.

Was Douglas MacArthur named after Stephen Douglas or Frederick Douglas? Or was there a famous Daniel from How Few Remain? Or did Douglas do something horrible that would tarnish the name? I’ve never read that one because i didn’t know it was part of the series until later and haven’t had time to catch up with it.
I think Scipio will end up in camp, but i’m not sure if he’ll die. I think some of his family will. Cincinnatus i don’t know, he may get captured eventually and help Scipio escape. Although Cincinnatus is more likely to get into trouble quicker and maybe quicker into camp (or maybe blacks by the boarder states get shipped off first so they don’t “stab 'em in the backs” or some crap.

Well, it was Frederick Douglass. Don’t know about Stephen Douglas or any famous Daniel. Mayhap you’re reading too much into the juxtaposition of two fairly common names? :slight_smile:

Normally i wouldn’t wonder too much, but Turtledove loves to play the name game, main characters regularly have kids named after famous people who wouldn’t have kids named after them in our world. (like Armstrong from these books, one of the kids in the Colonization series is named Adolf, i know there are more). It seems too coincedental. Either that, or this is just some other guy with the same last name. Maybe his cousin Doug will show up in the next book.
Patton is from California so he might show up with the north, and Eisenhower was born in Kansas. Of course, they might be bakers or something in this crazy mixed up world.

here someone seems to think that MacArthur had a southern mother, so maybe he has a different mother and therefore a different name.

Tars: Good points. But the thing is, to read this at all, you have to suspend a lot of disbelief. On another forum, someone pointed out the inescapable truth that in this timeline, none of these people would have been born. Not TR, not Al Smith, not anyone. If Daniel/Douglas/Dougal MacArthur had a non-southern mother, then he wouldn’t be Army general material. Just one infinitesimal change in the circumstances of a conception, even the time of day of the conception can change everything. Sometimes you just have to let art flow over you.

Wait, I think Patton was killed in WWI in this timeline…I distinctly remember a Lt or Captain Patton getting killed, but I don’t remember the circumstances.

Every time I listen to Michael Savage (which I do solely for the entertainment value of his utterly insane ravings), I think that he should begin his show “My name is Michael Savage, and I’m hear to tell you the truth”.
Fortunately, he’s a lot dumber than Featherston, and our country is in a lot better shape than the CSA in the books.