TWD a zombiological study

The area in which TWD is set doesn’t have any native apes or monkeys and the characters never took a trip to the zoo. I wonder if there are zombified chimpanzees, gorillas, and such. Do you think a zombified chimp might actually be less dangerous than a live one?

Zombification slows down speed and reaction time, doesn’t boost strength (in fact seems to hinder strength, or at least the application of strength…see zombies and standard household doors / glass doors), and removes any retreat or jockeying for position notions.

So overall, I would say it would make them less dangerous.

In fact since Zombies Can’t Jump (starring Woody Harrelson and Wesley Snipes :slight_smile: ) that might even further limit chimps efficiency in attacking a taller adversary like a human. No jumping would really limit the effectiveness of feline zombies (I know no animal zombies have been seen, but it is an interesting point, especially for cats whose attack routine is centered around a pounce or sudden burst of speed).

Isn’t any constantly moving object going to be generating a certain amount of heat?

I know that this gets back to the “perpetual motion” problem of zombies, but thereyago.

In Peter Clines’ Ex series, the zombie virus is ubiquitous. Virtually everyone has been infected with it. So when you die, regardless of the cause, you become a zombie. So there’s no way to end the zombie apocalypse. Even if every zombie in the world was destroyed, it would all start up again as soon as the first person died and resurrected.

On the other hand, being attacked by a zombie doesn’t necessarily turn you into a zombie. Being attacked by a zombie is serious in the same way being attacked by a shark is serious. And even a victim who receives a minor wound will probably die because zombies are full of all sorts of diseases. But it is theoretically possible for a person to be bitten by a zombie and survive.

I feel silly trying to apply laws of physics to a fantasy, but heck, what else do I have to keep my mind occupied while I wait for the next episode? :smiley:

Sure, a moving object may generate some heat. Internal friction between the molecules that make up the zombie tissue must generate some calories. And (on this esoteric theoretical level :wink: ) even the friction of the zombie body through the atmosphere, and against remaining clothing, should generate some tiny number of calories too.

But the calories lost to the environment outweigh these by at least a couple of orders of magnitude. Even healthy normal humans will freeze to death, and later freeze solid, after extended exposure to extreme cold. Zombies, having actually been human bodies, should not be exempt from this.

And freezing causes deterioration of meats because ice crystals form inside cells, and these can puncture cell membranes. That’s why a fresh steak is so much better than a frozen one. Given this, I’d expect significant damage to zombie brains from freezing. The more freeze - thaw cycles, the more accumulated damage. Surely at some point that damage has to equal, say, a tire iron through the eye socket or some other action we’ve seen “kill” a zombie.

Now, some fish and some insects actually produce antifreeze chemicals. These chemicals lower the temperature at which ice crystals form, or slow the formation, to protect cells from damage. Humans, alas, lack this facility. Do we need to postulate that zombies somehow acquire the ability to produce antifreeze? Otherwise, I can’t see any way to avoid winters resulting in (a) zombie-cicles and, after some unknown number of freeze - thaw cycles, (b) actual dead (finished off, no longer dangerous, brain damaged beyond the critical level) zombies.

They don’t, and yet the moaning noises some of them make indicated that they can still aspirate, implying some lung functionality. It’s a fascinating and complex medical conundrum.

Are we actually sure it is the destruction of brain tissue that deactivates a walker? Based on what we see on screen, one could as easily make the case that puncturing/breaking the cranium is actually the off switch. The mechanism isn’t clear, but makes neither more nor less sense than the brain being the key component. Cranial integrity being the key, rather than the brain, sidesteps all the issues of the brain dehydrating or enduring freeze-thaw cycles. The live characters would naturally assume that brain destruction is what matters because they still tend to think in terms of how living organisms function and how they may be killed. It could be that brain destruction is unimportant other than for a gratifyingly wet money shot in action sequences.

I tried to make that point as Rule 14. You’re right that the Walking Empiricists can’t distinguish whether its cranium or brain based on their observations.

Gets me thinking that with all their head boinking experience the Three Stooges could be like the Ultimate Ninjas of the Walking Dead universe

We need a rule about the omnipresent forest ninja zombies* that appear seemingly from nowhere and without making a sound until they are within grabbing distance of their intended victim.

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I thought it was a bad move strategically for them to show brain scans in the last episode of the first season that showed that the only brain activity in the zombies was in the brain stem. Basically, this means the relatively surface brain damage that is usually shown shouldn’t work.

The official rule is always that zombies are mindless shamblers insensible to all but the most rudimentary plans of making a beeline toward food and irrepressibly inclined to moan, with the understanding that this rule will be ignored anytime they feel like having a zombie take somebody by surprise. They simply teleport into your blind spot, it seems, any time you’re not absolutely clocking every angle of the room at all times. Like, for example, if you stop to have a tense conversation with a fellow survivor. BAMF! CHOMP!

Would burning destroy a TWD zombie?

Obviously a fire hot enough to burn bones could, but are those temps reached in a residential fire?

I suppose a structure collapsing in a fire could crack some heads open.

Would the heat essentially boiling the brains inside the skull do the trick?

We’ve only seen some really pathetic attempts at burning walkers before – just pouring some gas on them. Once the gas and clothing has burned, you’ve just got really crispy walkers. Presumably still pink(ish) in the middle.

There’s also the zombies in downtown Atlanta that were burned by the military with napalm. It left them as gooey bits of zombie that could still move their arms and heads :http://www.thewalkingdead.com/how-rotters-in-the-flesh-came-to-life/

In one of the most recent episodes, we saw the forest that had been burned (purposely they said, to try to clear the area of walkers) and was littered with crispy walkers… I think most of them were ‘dead’ but that one girl fell onto the glass covering that was over one of the walkers and it woke up and bit her.

Concerning cremating a human body.

“…1400 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. After approximately 2 to 2 1/2 hours, all organic matter is consumed by heat or evaporation…” from here nfda.org/planning-a-funeral/cremation/160.html

And

“The average house fire burns at a temperature of about 1,100° F…” from here.
I don’t know how long a house burns, but I can’t imagine it would last anywhere near 2 to 2 1/2 hours, at least not up at that quoted temp. So a house fire is both too cool and too fast to full cremate a zombie. At least to the standard of American funeral directors. Might still be enough to render them “dead” or harmless though.

It seems as though zombies have bones- or at least, skulls- which are weaker than those belong to living humans. The older they get, the more fragile the skulls become. It’s possible to easily drive a knife through the temple of a zombie, or even to crush a zombie skull just by stomping it.

Bone is actually pretty tough, so this might be due to some action of the virus.

Cremation involves nearly complete destruction of the body, down to ashes with a few chunks of calcium from large bones. It shouldn’t take total cremation to render (ha! no pun intended!) a zombie non-functional.

I may be willing to suspend disbelief and accept some kind of antifreeze protecting zombie brains from destruction by freezing. I don’t think the situation has ever come up on the show, so I’ll just have to make that call if and when. But fire has been addressed. Same episode Tangent mentions, all those “crispy walkers” were made such by fires deliberately set (so the dialog suggested) by the two girls and the guy, as part of their escape. Zombies caught in a forest fire would not be “incinerated” to the point of near-total destruction. But clearly there is some “critical thermal maximum” of temperature and duration that when exceeded will “kill” a zombie. And that critical thermal maximum can be exceeded by an open fire applied for rather less than 2 or 2.5 hours. At least, I’ve never seen a forest fire where great intensity was maintained at a single spot for more than perhaps 15 minutes. The trees and brush burn away and nobody is stoking that spot.

I guess this returns us to our earlier speculations about destroying zombies with a flame thrower, or by tossing them in a ditch of flames fed by gasoline. Ah, such pleasant thoughts for a Monday! :smiley:

Okay, I’m beginning to see a glimpse of a new and unexpected direction. Brains are pink (yeah, I know, not really…just go with it), and the blob of 50’s drive-in horror movie fame was pink. So maybe, just maybe, zombies are the larvae, the tadpole, or one of those parasites that controls its host (wasps, snails, ants) that turns into a blob when it enters the adult phase of its lifecycle. Maybe the skulls getting squishier is deliberate. Given enough time, maybe the bones dissolve completely, and little bloblings “swim” around, flapping the deboned bodies of their host like flagella before emerging under a full August moon.

Unlikely to be sure. But I bet know one would see it coming.

I am re-watching the pilot for nostalgia and the very first zombie we see, the little girl at the gas station, is walking around and bends down and picks up a stuffed animal to carry with her.

Interesting to view this again in light of all we have learned. I may continue watching the first season to see if the writers are playing it straight the whole time.

After re-watching the first two episodes, here are some observations.

Yes, we see multiple zombies climbing a chain link fence.

Yes, we see, not one but two, zombies carrying rocks and using them to break the glass front of the department store in Atlanta. In fact there were two sets of glass doors and both zombies carried the rocks with them after breeching the first set to the second set.

The zombies climbed on top of the tank (a non-standard kind of climb for most people) really fast.

The zombies were really fast, not quite jogging, but definitely doing a very fast trot in pursuit of prey.

The zombies facial expressions were mean and predatory pursuing the cast. They had a definite angry mob vibe about them.

The zombies were louder in their vocalizations.

Morgan’s zombie wife comes and turns the doorknob of the house they are in without being “in pursuit” of prey. She even looks into the peep hole.

The zombies could not climb the fire escape ladder that Glen leads Rick to immediately after the tank.

The zombies that devoured the horse, first pulled chunks of flesh away with their hands and then ate instead of bending down to bring their mouth to the food.

The zombies were definitely fresher looking.

Yeah, they got dumber and less effective as time went on in “TWD-Land”.