Two and a half weeks into my new job and I have concerns

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

For you following along, I started a new job about three weeks ago. Here’s my post:

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=894320

It’s a factory that makes plastic injected molded parts, and has a machine shop for, well, machining parts.

So, here are some concerns from my quality and safety background:

Safety

  • There’s a sign that says safety shoes are required. Almost no one wears any and there’s no company shoe purchase program.
  • There’s an eyewash station that has obviously never been tested in years, evidenced by dust, etc.
  • I need to use a chemical and when I looked in the MSDS binder I didn’t find it.
  • Safety glasses should be used in a few applications, and none are provided.
  • There’s a safety kit mounted on the wall that is never checked and appears to be lacking in certain supplies.
  • I’m not sure where any fire extinguishers are located.

Quality

  • There are procedures that reference equipment that is no longer present.
  • There are new machine operators who were never instructed to sign off on work instructions, like the procedure states.
  • There is an acceptance quality standard for molded parts that no one, including operators, has signed in like 5 years, including all new operators.
  • There are parts which require specific inspection knowledge, but the inspection instructions aren’t up to date.

This is what I’ve discovered in two and a half weeks at work. I have no idea how they could have successfully passed all their ISO 9001 and ISO 13485 audits.

I guess I’m wondering how to approach all of this. I have a three month probationary period. Do I document all this for my manager and express my concerns, or do I just plod along like everyone else?

Otherwise it’s a good company with a lot of long-term employees.

2

Um, wow. Document and report to the Canadian version of OSHA and whomever else they are reporting to ASE, and perhaps Society for Quality Engineers.

Yikes.

3

Wow. How does the company buy insurance? Insurance inspectors would never let that kind of stuff fly.

4

Maybe a good first step would be to talk to their Risk Manager. I’m sure his or her interests would be aligned with yours.

5

I had a side position as Safety Manager in a factory I worked at. Everything mentioned in the OP made me cringe. That stuff is just not that hard to manage; the boss just doesn’t give a shit.

ETA: ISO 9000 and 13485? Then there has to be someone working documentation, and it’s not being done well. I’ve been through many audits that delved into some of the things you listed. That shop is lucky.

6

Your issue is not that fact that equipment and procedures are not in place.

The real issue is that safety is not maintained, did you have an induction? Were safety measures identified to you?Was the safety management hierarchy identified to you?

What you have is a lack of safety culture - no amount of raising individual issues will change that, it might mean that missing or faulty equipment is replaced but fundamentally the workforce and especially the management have not bought into safety.

This follows through into the product quality - seems to be a case of get it made and out the door and forget the why and how.

Lots of places are like this - maybe you have a union that you could approach but otherwise I would go from day to day doing what little things I need for my own safety but not rock the boat - so requesting location of first aid kits, identify first aiders, access PPE but anything wider than yourself I would be very wary of getting involved until you understand the culture of the place.

7

I agree with contacting an OSHA type entity and asking them if you can remain anonymous. Going to your supervisor or anyone else in the company will only get you fired. The problems you describe are long-standing, which means nobody gives a shit, and nobody is interested in spending the time or money to fix them. Even if you’re willing to accept unemployment in exchange for protecting your fellow employees, nothing will be done after you are gone.

8

I’m not in your field, but I look at this as an ethical issue rather than a tactical work issue. How can you live with yourself if you put up with this? Workers are in danger and it’s up to you to do something about it. Also, if you stay on there and eventually the shit hits the fan, what will this do to your professional reputation?

9

I assume that you not only have a boss, you also have co-workers at your same level in the company hierarchy.
Be very,very careful not to antagonize your boss! Nobody likes a smart-alec.

You say you are the overnight inspector. I assume that there is also a day-shift inspector.Talk to him quietly, and ask his advice. Be subtle, and make sure he doesn’t see you as a threat, trying to move in on his turf. Ask a few simple questions, and not all on the same day.:
"can you show me where there’s a fire extinguisher? “I have safety glasses left over from my last job, should I bring them? I need new safety shoes, do you know a good place to buy them?”

If he looks at you like you’re being a troublemaker who’s going to upset familiar routines, then be careful, and shut up for a while.
Keep documentation of existing violations, for your own protection, so you don’t get blamed later. But keep the file private, and don’t rock the boat. Yet.

also–Are you a quality control inspector, or a safety inspector? Whose toes will you be stepping on if you complain openly?

10

The only problem I see with this is that if nobody has given a crap for years, and suddenly some government agency comes nosing around right after some new guy was hired, then they can probably connect the dots and figure out who reported them even if it was anonymous. It might be better to go up the chain internally first, and take the “whistleblower” approach as a last resort.

11

This.

Realistically there’s not much you can do at this time. You’re new, and even mentioning these problems to your supervisor could get you in trouble. The longer you work there, the “safer” it will be for you to bring this stuff up.

So you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you raise the issue, your job could be in jeopardy. And if you don’t raise the issue, and someone gets hurt, you’re going to feel partially responsible for it. Shitty situation to be in. :frowning:

12

It could be that nobody at the company cares about safety, and they’ll be annoyed at you for bringing up issues that “obviously don’t matter” and regard you as a “troublemaker”.

Or it could be that they do care about safety, but just don’t realize how unsafe they’re being, and will be grateful to you for pointing it out.

Or anything in between. It’s possible, for instance, that they’ll be annoyed but grudgingly admit that you’re right and fix it. It’s even possible that they suspected that there were issues, but didn’t know what they were, and hired you specifically with the hope that you would find them (that certainly sounds to me like it fits within the job description of “quality control inspector”).

My recommendation would be to try to work within the company first (but make sure everything you say and do is well-documented). That’s the approach that leads to the best-case scenario, the one where they say “You’re right, we should have been doing that, thank you for pointing that out for us”. In the worst-case scenario, where they fire you or create a hostile work environment for you, that’s when you go to the government agencies, with all of your documentation, and show that not only are they still not in compliance, but they’re retaliating against you for it. That has the sort of consequences that are usually described as “settled out of court for an undisclosed figure speculated to be in the seven digits”.

13

Yeeeesh.

None of this is good.

Now, it could be that the company is run by people who just don’t know, as opposed to not caring. The thing is, in my experience, the ones who don’t know don’t know BECAUSE they don’t care. Of course most companies don’t really KNOW all the rules - but that’s why they hire a service to help them with it, or assign or to someone, or something.

This kind of stuff is more common, and actually less bothersome. It is likely that at least some of the procedures you have described should be thrown away, or merged, or otherwise made easier to use.

ISO 9001:2015 does not requires procedures. It requires that processes be controlled to mitigate risk - which could be procedures, but could also be training, or inspection, or pictographs, or a combination of these things. If no one cares about procedures but the company has remained in business that suggests to me that they weren’t very useful to start with.

From your perspective as the quality manager you have a tough road ahead and keeping your job is rather important. **You’re going to have to sell systems and risk management to the brass as being a way to save money. ** This might NOT work but I guarantee you it’s the only thing that WILL work.

What your bosses think is that you will go off on your own and create binders that will solve everything. You can’t, but you need to sell this to them a little at a time. Get invited to those management meetings and start providing one or two really cool, profit-increasing ideas related to your job. Sell it as a profit enhancer. There is no other way. You have a lot of problems there, but do not bring problems to them. Reframe them as solutions and opportunities.

I suggest you start with quality FIRST. I know that sounds odd; safety is more important. However, providing support in quality allows you to become a hero by finding ways to prevent problems, fix things, and therefore make more money. By increasing your influence that way you can start to rope in safety things and, anyway, it gives you time to familiarize yourself with t he extent of the problems and what has to be done (Ontario changes the rules so damn often.) I’d sure as hell wear my PPE no matter what any other asshole does tho.

PM me if you need more help (or help finding a better auditor.) I’m running some consultancy stuff on the side, know people in that area, and know who the good auditors are. I know some H&S people in that neck of the woods too.

14

Easy, they faked up all the paperwork and backdated it like we did at my first job.

That firm is no longer in business.

15

Is the company, just this one single plant, or are you at a plant that is part of many sites that make up the company?

I’d talk to your supervisor about the issues that you raised. If he/she dismisses them and wants you to as well, then I’d go to your EHS site manager. If he/she dismisses it, then I’d start looking for a new job. You’re most likely going to be let go, but make them fire you.

You should at least assume that someone in management cares and wants to fix it. Otherwise, just leave. You don’t want to work in a place that has such a complete disregard for the safety of its employees or the quality of the products it sells to its customers.

16

In the U.S. anyway can’t you actually get a reward for being a whistleblower? I know a guy who supposedly blew the whistle on some company he worked for over a safety thing and I think he actually got a substantial amount of money.

17

It’s one single plant, and I like it! There are a lot of long-term employees in the 10 to 20 year range, so obviously they’re doing something right.

I’m going to tackle this gently with one topic at a time instead of firing off a memo listing shit.

Today I talked to someone in maintenance about the eyewash station. He agreed with me, took down my name and said he’d get back to me. I also was verbally informed by another senior employee that the MSDS I was looking for was in fact in a separate binder in the clean room. I have yet to verify that.

As for operators not signing off on work instructions, I took it upon myself today to inform them that it was a requirement that they read the document and sign off on every shift. Their supervisor never mentioned it, but I’m going to insist on it for every machine and operator on my shift.

I’m not involving management, yet.

18

Leaffan, I note two things, with emphasis provided by me:

I’ve worked in a few industrial jobs where safety glasses and safety shoes were required. In each case, the shop would not hire you unless and until you could provide both that were up to shop standards. In no case did the workplaces provide safety glasses for the long term, nor did the company provide a shoe purchase program. “You want a job here, you prove to us that you’ve got your own eye and foot protection. If you can’t, we’re not hiring you.” It may sound unfair, but that’s the way it was.

Leaffan, I cannot speak to your other points, but I would suggest that you suck it up on personal protection. Regardless of your employer’s provision of personal protective equipment, you need to get yourself a proper pair of safety glasses–Canadian Tire is a good source–and the same for safety boots or shoes (I got my latest pair from Walmart, green CSA safety patch and all). Forget who funds it; make sure that you yourself are as safe as can be. After you have, worry about the rest.

Note also that by demonstrating that you are being as safe as possible yourself, you’re setting a great example to your fellow workers.

19

I think not. If what is being reported is true, then that Risk manager is either blind as a bat or is in on it. Nobody who gave half a fuck would overlook that much.

20

When on probation, never say anything except Yes Sir.

If the safety equipment that is present has never been used, the shop may not really be hazardous, and the regulations are seriously erring on the over-kill side. This is not to defend it, but to explain it.

From the way you describe the tolerance for slackness – You’re in Newfoundland, right?