Watching The Americans and looking at the subtitles I get the impression that in conversational Russian it is not uncommon to use the persons full name when addressing him or her. Is this actually as common as I believe it is portrayed in the show?
For example - a character might say “Nina Sergegeevna I have two tickets to the local hockey game and want to know if you’d like to attend?”
Ok - while writing this question I looked for the correct spelling of her name on Wikipedia and note that they sort of address this somewhat. Apparently I am wrong and they are not using full names, but the “patronymic” which appears to translate to “daughter of Sergei”. Is this similar to “bin laden” (which I understood was also his last name) or “Worf son of Mog”?
My question - I guess revised from above - is still how common is this? Does it happen more in official settings such as an embassy. Does everyone in Russia know their friends “patrynomic” & “surname”? What happens if you don’t know your fathers name? Do kids do this? People on dates?
In English it is very uncommon to say a persons name in conversation - especially something equivalent to a full name. So I am curious about the use in conversation itself (and if the portrayal on The Americans is accurate to what would really occur).
My other question - or group of questions is about the last name of Russian women. I have read it is common (I believe Wikipedia says “most”) Russian women have a different spelling of their husbands last name - apparently usually adding an “a” (or Russian equivalent I guess) to the end of it. So Putin’s former wife is/was “Putina” for example.
Is this the same for female children - any daughters of Putin would be “Putina” and sons would be “Putin”?
How common is this? If I were to take 100 Russian women at random (from a pool of women who were born in Russia - and who were married to men that were also born in Russia) - how many would likely follow this convention?
I would assume to Russian ears it would sound totally wrong for a female to have the last name “Putin” so when they go to a place like America and get married - I would guess they would run into so resistance at the DMV - as I assume most Americans are unfamiliar with this convention - and a cursurory reading of my states Drivers license procedure would appear that they would need to go through the normal procedures for a name change - and couldn’t simply use a marriage certificate. Is this the case? Do many just Russian expats simply give up and follow American convention?
If I had a last name that wasn’t Russian, but ended in a letter that seemed to allow for this - say “Reagan” - and I got married in Russia - would they automatically make my wife “Reagana” - or would they say “Silly American that isn’t a Russian name - we are not fools”?
You definitely always know your bosses’ or teachers’ patronymics. That’s just automatic. In general, if you know someone in authority, you know their patronymics. Colleagues in work setting - usually, but sometimes (especially with younger people) you can get away with first names. In general, addressing older people, you would probably use the patronymic. First name is too “familiar”. Your friends you may call by their names without patronymics, and usually don’t know what they are. If you’re in a formal setting, patronymics are de rigeur, unless you’re addressing someone by their last name, like “Comrade Brezhnev” (or, today, I guess “gospodin Brezhnev” would be the replacement, not sure if they use “citizen” in that context anymore). In a pinch, “comrade/gospodin/grazhdanin” can be used with the first name.
Yes.
Yes.
Probably 80% or so, because this applies only to Russian names - like “Ivanov/Ivanova”. If the name is in any way foreign (like “Rabinovich”, “Kuz’menko” or “Smith”) then it doesn’t change for females.
Use of the patronymic is the formal way to address someone, as there is no direct equivalent of “mister”. So if you were talking to Tolstoy, you wouldn’t address him as Mr. Tolstoy, you would address him as Lev Nikolayevich.
Women use the feminine form of both patronymic and last name. Aleksei Ivanovich Belyakov has a sister, Irina Ivanovna Belyakova. A male last name ending is -sky would end in -skaya in the feminine (eg., Bichevsky becomes Bichevskaya). You will also find people named, say, Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov, with his sister Maria Ivanovna Ivanova. (Note the presence of the second N in the patronymic.)
Russians don’t typically, uh, Russianify Western names in terms of making up a patroynimic for you. You might get a Russian nickname, though, either playing off your first name, last name, other attribute, or at random.
One thing I noticed in Tom Clancy novels is he had Russian characters render the names of American characters into Russian fashion. For example, Jack Ryan’s name was John Patrick Ryan. But Russians would address him as Ivan Emmitivich (Ryan’s father was named Emmit).
Do actual Russians do this? Would Russians have referred to the former President as Ronald Ivanovich Reagan?
eta: I see gallows fodder addressed this question while I was writing it.
Actually Lev Nikolayevitch would still be fairly familiar (though, of course, not nearly as familiar as “Lyova”). “Gospodin Tolstoy” would have been more formal, and of course, since he was a Count, “Your Illustrious Highness Count Tokstoy” (“Ваше Сиятельство”) would be the most formal.
Still, use of the first name+patronymic is the polite way to address people with whom you are acquainted but not friends, so in “The Americans” it is indeed proper and normal for coworkers and employees/boss to address each other that way.
In my other example, if Irina Ivanovna Belyakova was your boss or coworker you don’t know intimately, you’d address her as Irina Ivanovna. If she was your friend, you might call her Ira (nickname for Irina). If she was your girlfriend, you might call her a more intimate nickname like Irisha. If she was your baby daughter whom you doted on, you might call her a sugary sweet nickname like Irinchik.
It’s like if your CEO was Jennifer Smith. Employees call her Ms. Smith. Her friends call her Jen. Her husband calls her Jenny. Her grandma called her Jenny-wenny.
Sorry this is a couple days late - I’ve been a bit preoccupied.
My question (I should have been clearer) was more to do with is it really that common to use the name at all? It seemed like even in some relatively non formal conversations (but still in the embassy) - if memory serves - they were using the name even when it would have appeared unnecessary (no one else in the room).
Of course - I watched an episode from season one the other day with this in mind - and I didn’t see it, but I could swear they seem to use the name much more often than we would in English. I’ve gone I think my whole life without ever using someone’s name in a conversation where it is:
just the two of us
I am familiar with them
unless I am trying to make a dramatic effect. I know people that do it - and for some reason it usually strikes me as “used car salesman” like.
I might have just been misremembering some stuff, but I know it sort of “broke my suspension of disbelief” (for lack of a better term - I mean woke me up to the fact I was watching a TV show) when I saw this - and it has happened in way more than one episode.
I appreciate everyone’s answers - It certainly helped me to have a better understanding about some things!
