Two "temp" periods with the same company

[forgottenstar]

I began working for the current company I am with in December. I was hired through a temp agency and worked 680 hours to become permanent. At the end of April, I signed on to become a permanent salaried employee.

I recently found out that I have to now be under their payroll for 6 months before I am entitled to benefits and PTO.

I am not too worried about the benefits part at the moment.

My issue is the PTO. Under this policy, I would be going just under a year without any PTO, and then once I am able to have PTO, it would be pro-rated so I would only wind up with at most 2 days. To top that off, I work half hour to 45 minutes overtime every day without compensation. So now that I am completely exhausted and need a few days off to reboot, my pay will be docked.

I know there is a difference between exempt and non-exempt as far as salaried employees go, but Im unsure which category I am in.

So my question is, has anyone ever had to deal with something like this? Ive never heard of going through a temp period and then a probation period. I thought the point of temp to perm was for them to try you out and then when you go permanent, you are just that.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

I never NOT gone from a temp employee to a regular employee and not had this happen. Technically, there is no difference between you who went from a temp to a regular employee on August 1st and some dude off the street who started August 1st. You were not their employee previous to August 1st, you were the temp agency’s employee. You weren’t covered under their workman’s comp or liability policies, nor their harassment policies, so why wuold you otherwise enjoy their benefits? Many temp companies also provide PTO after, say, 1000 hours of temping in a year. Should you be able to accrue both PTO from the temp agency AND the temp agency’s client?

The long and the short of it is that from no standpoint were you the company’s employee while you were a temp. Since you weren’t an employee, you do not accrue PTO.

[Balthisar]

Perfectly normal.

“Salaried” is generally the same thing as “exempt.” There’s always the possibility that your company has you classified wrong, but that’s a long, hard battle.

Unless your supervisor is a jerk, there’s always just the ability to talk to him/her and see if you can take a day or two of comp time. You may have an official policy, but understanding supervisors will always have an unofficial policy.

[forgottenstar]

Im not stating that I should have accrued PTO while I was a temp. But my understanding (from previous temp to perm jobs as well as speaking with one of my old office managers) was that once you become permanent, you should automatically receive the benefits of a regular full time employee.

In addition to that, Im working overtime without getting paid for it, yet getting my salaried docked when I need a day off to rest. It defeats the purpose of being salaried.

[forgottenstar]

@Balthisar

Perfectly normal.

“Salaried” is generally the same thing as “exempt.” There’s always the possibility that your company has you classified wrong, but that’s a long, hard battle.

Unless your supervisor is a jerk, there’s always just the ability to talk to him/her and see if you can take a day or two of comp time. You may have an official policy, but understanding supervisors will always have an unofficial policy.

Thanks. Im not so worried about one or two days. My bigger issue is that because I had just started working here before the holidays last year, I couldn’t spend them with my family. I promised my family I would be there this year for the holidays, but it looks like I may have to go a week without pay which will really hurt me financially.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

@forgottenstar

Im not stating that I should have accrued PTO while I was a temp. But my understanding (from previous temp to perm jobs as well as speaking with one of my old office managers) was that once you become permanent, you should automatically receive the benefits of a regular full time employee.

In addition to that, Im working overtime without getting paid for it, yet getting my salaried docked when I need a day off to rest. It defeats the purpose of being salaried.

And from everything I can tell, you ARE receiving the benefits of a regular full time employee. What other FT regular employee of this company is NOT subject to the six month policy?

I’ll say it again, you were NOT their employee while you were a temp. Now that you are, you receive the same benefits as any other brand spanking new regular employee, under the same contrictions and policy.

It doesn’t matter what you experienced in other temp jobs. It doesn’t matter what an old office manager told you. THIS employer has a policy that you will not get PTO until you have been their employee for six months. That means, like every other employee, salaried or not, their pay is docked if they take time off before six months. That’s what the P stands for. PaidTO is given after six months. Prior to six months, you can take time off, you just won’t get paid for it. Doesn’t matter if your salaried or not. What matters is whether the time off is paid for by the company or not. And it is not, according to your company, prior to you being there six months.

Whether or not you agree or think this is a good or fair idea doesn’t matter. This is your company’s policy. Now, what you CAN do about it is discuss this with your manager and see if they will give you a few days off now and take them out of your total days allowed off once you get to six months. Many employers will let you take days off “in advance” as it were.

[forgottenstar]

@niblet_head

@forgottenstar

Im not stating that I should have accrued PTO while I was a temp. But my understanding (from previous temp to perm jobs as well as speaking with one of my old office managers) was that once you become permanent, you should automatically receive the benefits of a regular full time employee.

In addition to that, Im working overtime without getting paid for it, yet getting my salaried docked when I need a day off to rest. It defeats the purpose of being salaried.

And from everything I can tell, you ARE receiving the benefits of a regular full time employee. What other FT regular employee of this company is NOT subject to the six month policy?

I’ll say it again, you were NOT their employee while you were a temp. Now that you are, you receive the same benefits as any other brand spanking new regular employee, under the same contrictions and policy.

It doesn’t matter what you experienced in other temp jobs. It doesn’t matter what an old office manager told you. THIS employer has a policy that you will not get PTO until you have been their employee for six months. That means, like every other employee, salaried or not, their pay is docked if they take time off before six months. That’s what the P stands for. PaidTO is given after six months. Prior to six months, you can take time off, you just won’t get paid for it. Doesn’t matter if your salaried or not. What matters is whether the time off is paid for by the company or not. And it is not, according to your company, prior to you being there six months.

Whether or not you agree or think this is a good or fair idea doesn’t matter. This is your company’s policy. Now, what you CAN do about it is discuss this with your manager and see if they will give you a few days off now and take them out of your total days allowed off once you get to six months. Many employers will let you take days off “in advance” as it were.

And that would be fine if my days were not getting pro-rated.

Because I wont be “permanent” (again) until November, I will only get 2 days of PTO instead of the yearly 11. I wouldn’t be annoyed about not getting PTO until Nov. if I was getting the full amount of days, or at least half of them. So when I want to visit my family for the first time in over a year for the holidays, I will go a week without pay. That is my bigger issue. Like I said, I don’t care so much about one or two days, I care about a week because it will hurt me financially. And when I asked about using my overtime to cover the days I am out, they said that they do not do that.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

Just like every single other FT employee who starts after January 1.

I cannot believe you have never run into this situation before. Every employer I’ve had in the last 15 years has policies such as this.

You don’t get “overtime”, either. Stop thinking of it as overtime. You do not get overtime. Only non-exempt employees get overtime.

I have another solution for you. Quit this job and go get another. One that is paid hourly. One that gives you a full week (hell, a full month!) of PTO from day one. That you could take on day two if you wanted. Lottsa luck!

[forgottenstar]

@niblet_head

Just like every single other FT employee who starts after January 1.

I cannot believe you have never run into this situation before. Every employer I’ve had in the last 15 years has policies such as this.

You don’t get “overtime”, either. Stop thinking of it as overtime. You do not get overtime. Only non-exempt employees get overtime.

I have another solution for you. Quit this job and go get another. One that is paid hourly. One that gives you a full week (hell, a full month!) of PTO from day one. That you could take on day two if you wanted. Lottsa luck!

Wow, really? I wasnt asking for sarcastic answers. I spoke to quite a few people before posting here who all found this very weird. Im sorry that I am not as experienced as you in the employment field- but then again Im only 23 so why the hell would I?

This is also why I said I was not sure if my job is considered exempt or non exempt- because I dont know if the OT is actually OT here or not.

There is really no reason to be nasty. Im just trying to understand something that Ive never delt with before.

[Harmonious_Discord]

Don’t let niblet_head scare you off. Temp agency hours don’t normally count towards the time you worked at company that then hires you. Those hours were worked for the temp agency.

[forgottenstar]

So then, whats the point of being temp to perm if you still have to do another evaluation period?

I honestly just feel like Im getting screwed somewhere. Apparently this is normal procedure, but no one Ive spoken to about it seems to have ever dealt with it. Even the people in this company (who have been here for 3+ years) did not know they operated like this.

[Carol_the_Impaler]

@forgottenstar

@niblet_head

Just like every single other FT employee who starts after January 1.

I cannot believe you have never run into this situation before. Every employer I’ve had in the last 15 years has policies such as this.

You don’t get “overtime”, either. Stop thinking of it as overtime. You do not get overtime. Only non-exempt employees get overtime.

I have another solution for you. Quit this job and go get another. One that is paid hourly. One that gives you a full week (hell, a full month!) of PTO from day one. That you could take on day two if you wanted. Lottsa luck!

Wow, really? I wasnt asking for sarcastic answers. I spoke to quite a few people before posting here who all found this very weird. Im sorry that I am not as experienced as you in the employment field- but then again Im only 23 so why the hell would I?

This is also why I said I was not sure if my job is considered exempt or non exempt- because I dont know if the OT is actually OT here or not.

There is really no reason to be nasty. Im just trying to understand something that Ive never delt with before.

Because I’ve dealt with employees like you before, and you drive us bat shit crazy. You had your answer in my first post. Just because you don’t want something to be the case doesn’t mean that it isn’t the case.

Christ on a cracker, you’re NOT doing another evaluation period.

[forgottenstar]

Ok so if its not another evaluation period, than what is it?

If Joe Schmo walks in off the street and gets a job, he is evaluated for 6 months before getting any benefits.

Since I already did a temp period and now have to wait another 6 months prior to getting my benefits, what is it called?

Im trying to better understand a situation that I, nor anyone that I know, has been involved with before.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Firstly, when you’re a temp, you’re a temp and any benefits you get from that are from the temp company only.

When you are full time with Company X, you are full time with Company X and any benefits you get from that are from Company X - the two have nothing to do with each other.

Secondly, having a 6 month waiting period for certain benefits to kick in is pretty normal. At the company I work at (a University) there is a 6 month waiting period for certain benefits to kick in (dental coverage, tuition support, etc). At all of the companies my husband has worked at (electrical) he’s had to work a certain number of hours before benefits kick in. This is very common.

Thirdly, you need to look at your contract and determine what your rate of pay is for what number of hours. It’s also very normal for a temp employee to work hours per day of X, with full time salaried employees working hours per day of Y. That doesn’t mean that the full time employees are are working overtime - it means that’s how long their work week is. Depending on your location and contract you could be working 9 hours a day with a 30 minute lunch break and not be considered as working overtime. Conversely, my regular (full time employee) work day is 7 hours whereas temps at my company typically work 8 hours and do not receive OT.

Fourthly, I’m not sure why your PTO would be prorated from 11 days down to 2. If you’ve worked 1/2 a year at the time you want days off, I would think you would have about 5 to use - not 2 (although, again, this depends on your contract).

Finally, getting ANY paid time off at Christmas is really a luxury - not a typical entitlement. Also, as a newby, will you even be allowed to take days at that time of year? Unless your business closes over X-mas, I would expect that long term employees would get to take that time off first if they choose, with newbies such as yourself having to work. That would be pretty standard procedure, I think. Again, my husband can take time off whenever he wants (well, if it’s at the end of a job he’s not going to make any friends) but he doesn’t get paid for it. Even if it’s at X-mas time.

Sadly, these are the realities of working a full time job - you get what you get, you’re entitled to what you’re entitled to and your employer is NOT going to put your needs first. You need to choose a position with all of this in mind and make sure that what you sign up for is actually something you can live with. For instance, in the private sector I could be paid a lot more $$ than I do working at a pubic university; however, I would have longer work hours, less vacation time, no tuition benefit, etc. There are choices to be made and you need to decide which choices work best for you.

FWIW, it is now August - if you need to take time off at X-mas to be with your family and you’re confident that you will be able to get that time off from work, you need to start budgeting and setting aside $$ NOW to cover the period you will not be paid for. Assume you make $100 a day and you want to take 5 days off at X-mas - set aside $5 per day ($25 per week) and you’ll have your $500 waiting for you in December.

[Colibri]

@niblet_head

Because I’ve dealt with employees like you before, and you drive us bat shit crazy. You had your answer in my first post. Just because you don’t want something to be the case doesn’t mean that it isn’t the case.

Christ on a cracker, you’re NOT doing another evaluation period.

[Moderator Note]

niblet_head, there’s no reason for this level of rudeness. No warning issued, but dial it back.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[alice_in_wonderland]

@forgottenstar

Ok so if its not another evaluation period, than what is it?

If Joe Schmo walks in off the street and gets a job, he is evaluated for 6 months before getting any benefits.

Since I already did a temp period and now have to wait another 6 months prior to getting my benefits, what is it called?

Im trying to better understand a situation that I, nor anyone that I know, has been involved with before.

You need to quit thinking of your temp period as an evaluation period - it’s not. A temp period is worked by someone the company has no intention of hiring full time - they have a small amount of work that will last for X weeks or months and they hire someone temporarily to get that work done. The standards that a temp are held to tend to be MUCH more lax than those that a full time employee is expected to perform at (again, not every job/position). I’ve hired temps at my company for short stints and they’ve gotten way with crap a full time employee never would - why? Because they’re a temp - they’re only going to be there 2 weeks or 4 months or whatever - if they’re crap, they’re short term crap.

You’ve now done a sufficiently good job as a temp that your company has decided to hire you full time - well done you. However, that doesn’t mean your magically exempted from the standard evaluation procedure for new hires. You ARE a new hire - you will be expected to perform at a higher level than you would as a temp and you need to prove that you can.

Sadly, them’s the breaks. I suspect you’re not being screwed at all but are being treated as any other new employee. Also, I would be VERY careful about bitching to your coworkers about this, or relying on their opinions as to what company policy on these things is. I bet dollars to doughnuts that they have no idea whatsoever.

If you’re really concerned that something isn’t correct, I suggest having a friendly chat with HR and ask them to clarify some points of your employment contract (assuming you have one). Careful though - I would NOT go in with the attitude that the company is screwing you and HR better fix it - instead I would treat it as a fact finding mission. HR gets a (mostly deserved) bad rap around these parts; however, they CAN provide information and clarity to you that fellow coworkers cannot.

[forgottenstar]

@alice_in_wonderland

Firstly, when you’re a temp, you’re a temp and any benefits you get from that are from the temp company only.

When you are full time with Company X, you are full time with Company X and any benefits you get from that are from Company X - the two have nothing to do with each other.

Secondly, having a 6 month waiting period for certain benefits to kick in is pretty normal. At the company I work at (a University) there is a 6 month waiting period for certain benefits to kick in (dental coverage, tuition support, etc). At all of the companies my husband has worked at (electrical) he’s had to work a certain number of hours before benefits kick in. This is very common.

Thirdly, you need to look at your contract and determine what your rate of pay is for what number of hours. It’s also very normal for a temp employee to work hours per day of X, with full time salaried employees working hours per day of Y. That doesn’t mean that the full time employees are are working overtime - it means that’s how long their work week is. Depending on your location and contract you could be working 9 hours a day with a 30 minute lunch break and not be considered as working overtime. Conversely, my regular (full time employee) work day is 7 hours whereas temps at my company typically work 8 hours and do not receive OT.

Fourthly, I’m not sure why your PTO would be prorated from 11 days down to 2. If you’ve worked 1/2 a year at the time you want days off, I would think you would have about 5 to use - not 2 (although, again, this depends on your contract).

Finally, getting ANY paid time off at Christmas is really a luxury - not a typical entitlement. Also, as a newby, will you even be allowed to take days at that time of year? Unless your business closes over X-mas, I would expect that long term employees would get to take that time off first if they choose, with newbies such as yourself having to work. That would be pretty standard procedure, I think. Again, my husband can take time off whenever he wants (well, if it’s at the end of a job he’s not going to make any friends) but he doesn’t get paid for it. Even if it’s at X-mas time.

Sadly, these are the realities of working a full time job - you get what you get, you’re entitled to what you’re entitled to and your employer is NOT going to put your needs first. You need to choose a position with all of this in mind and make sure that what you sign up for is actually something you can live with. For instance, in the private sector I could be paid a lot more $$ than I do working at a pubic university; however, I would have longer work hours, less vacation time, no tuition benefit, etc. There are choices to be made and you need to decide which choices work best for you.

FWIW, it is now August - if you need to take time off at X-mas to be with your family and you’re confident that you will be able to get that time off from work, you need to start budgeting and setting aside $$ NOW to cover the period you will not be paid for. Assume you make $100 a day and you want to take 5 days off at X-mas - set aside $5 per day ($25 per week) and you’ll have your $500 waiting for you in December.

Thanks. Unfortunately my companies handbook is extremely vague when it comes to anything really- with the exception of hours. Our hours are 9 am to 6 pm with a 1 hour lunch break. I generally do not leave work until almost 7pm. That’s where the questions of overtime and exempt vs non-exempt status comes into play. (And I am exhausted from it. I have a 1 1/2 hr commute each way so I’m out of the house 13+ hours a day. I feel like I’m working just to pay for a place to sleep)

As far as pro-rating days, they have nothing about that in the hand book. I found this out when I requested 2 days off and the person in accounting told me about this. From what I understand, its pro-rated on the amount of days left in the year, not in the amount of days you have worked.

I totally understand working a specific period of time prior to receiving benefits. This is not my first job- but it is the first job where the period was 6 months. (In general, past experience has been 30 days to 90 days)
And yes, taking time off at Xmas will not be a problem. My job is divided into divisions, and I work closely with only 2 other girls. One who just started and one who’s family is here, not across the country. So I do not need to worry about who else in the company is taking off as it does not affect the work I do.

Here is a question though. When I was interviewed, there was never any mention of travel. I do not currently have a passport, and now I am being asked to get one because my boss wants to send me to Mexico & China.

Other than the obvious travel expenses they would cover, are they supposed to cover the cost of the passport since they did not say I would need to have one for this job? I also assume my pay would remain the same though I would be working at least 5-6 hours longer each day then I would by being in the office.

[forgottenstar]

@alice_in_wonderland

@forgottenstar

Ok so if its not another evaluation period, than what is it?

If Joe Schmo walks in off the street and gets a job, he is evaluated for 6 months before getting any benefits.

Since I already did a temp period and now have to wait another 6 months prior to getting my benefits, what is it called?

Im trying to better understand a situation that I, nor anyone that I know, has been involved with before.

You need to quit thinking of your temp period as an evaluation period - it’s not. A temp period is worked by someone the company has no intention of hiring full time - they have a small amount of work that will last for X weeks or months and they hire someone temporarily to get that work done. The standards that a temp are held to tend to be MUCH more lax than those that a full time employee is expected to perform at (again, not every job/position). I’ve hired temps at my company for short stints and they’ve gotten way with crap a full time employee never would - why? Because they’re a temp - they’re only going to be there 2 weeks or 4 months or whatever - if they’re crap, they’re short term crap.

You’ve now done a sufficiently good job as a temp that your company has decided to hire you full time - well done you. However, that doesn’t mean your magically exempted from the standard evaluation procedure for new hires. You ARE a new hire - you will be expected to perform at a higher level than you would as a temp and you need to prove that you can.

Sadly, them’s the breaks. I suspect you’re not being screwed at all but are being treated as any other new employee. Also, I would be VERY careful about bitching to your coworkers about this, or relying on their opinions as to what company policy on these things is. I bet dollars to doughnuts that they have no idea whatsoever.

If you’re really concerned that something isn’t correct, I suggest having a friendly chat with HR and ask them to clarify some points of your employment contract (assuming you have one). Careful though - I would NOT go in with the attitude that the company is screwing you and HR better fix it - instead I would treat it as a fact finding mission. HR gets a (mostly deserved) bad rap around these parts; however, they CAN provide information and clarity to you that fellow coworkers cannot.

Yeah, that would have been my first route to go if we actually had an HR department.

And as far as the co-workers, I only asked them how it works with PTO and even ones that have gone over the 11 days per year have not seen any deductions in their paychecks. Thats kind of where all of this is stemming from.

[alice_in_wonderland]

@forgottenstar

Thanks. Unfortunately my companies handbook is extremely vague when it comes to anything really- with the exception of hours. Our hours are 9 am to 6 pm with a 1 hour lunch break. I generally do not leave work until almost 7pm. That’s where the questions of overtime and exempt vs non-exempt status comes into play. (And I am exhausted from it. I have a 1 1/2 hr commute each way so I’m out of the house 13+ hours a day. I feel like I’m working just to pay for a place to sleep)

So, a couple of things - why do you work till almost 7? Is it because you’re learning new material and trying to get your skills up to snuff? If so I would not expect to be paid overtime for that (and my company DOES pay OT). Is it because your boss tells you you have to stay until 7?

This DOES seem like a good question for HR - what is your job status? Are you exempt? Not? Obviously the answer to this question will depend on that.

As far as pro-rating days, they have nothing about that in the hand book. I found this out when I requested 2 days off and the person in accounting told me about this. From what I understand, its pro-rated on the amount of days left in the year, not in the amount of days you have worked.

Again - who is this person in accounting? Do they actually have the correct knowledge about these things? One of my coworkers - the Manager of Budget and Finance (who is a gem of a man - really a doll) regularly gives people incorrect information because he can’t stand to send someone away without an answer. I am the budget holder of a particular account and need to approve all expenditures on it and I regularly get people submitting things that have no business being submitted because this man told them to. Again - make sure your source of information is the CORRECT source of information.

And yes, taking time off at Xmas will not be a problem. My job is divided into divisions, and I work closely with only 2 other girls. One who just started and one who’s family is here, not across the country. So I do not need to worry about who else in the company is taking off as it does not affect the work I do.

Well this is very good news then! You need to start investigating (with HR I suspect) exactly what your PTO entitlement will be and start budgeting for any shortfall. I fully appreciate wanting to spend the holidays with your family; however, you will need to budget for it and set some $$ aside. Honestly, that is a luxury that many people do not get so you should be thankful that you at least get to take the time off, even if you don’t get paid for all of it.

Here is a question though. When I was interviewed, there was never any mention of travel. I do not currently have a passport, and now I am being asked to get one because my boss wants to send me to Mexico & China.

Other than the obvious travel expenses they would cover, are they supposed to cover the cost of the passport since they did not say I would need to have one for this job? I also assume my pay would remain the same though I would be working at least 5-6 hours longer each day then I would by being in the office.

This will depend on the employer. If a valid passport was not a condition of employment I should think the cost of getting one would be covered by the company - I suspect you would pay up front and then submit the expense with your other travel costs.

As to the hours worked versus pay - well, that’s sort of a paradox. Many people would consider getting an all expenses paid trip to China worth an extra few work hours each day; however, assume you are not one of them. Typically you would receive a travel per diem to cover your food and whatnot while traveling for business - at my company it’s $63/day if you’re traveling outside of the country. Obviously, when you’re home the company does not pay to feed you so that is a travel perk that you receive.

You should work out these specific details before you go on any trips, and find out exactly how they expect you to cover the extra costs - do you pay up front and get money back? Do they give you a company credit card to cover everything? Etc.

Finally, you need to decide if travel is a deal breaker for you - as a young person I think the opportunity to get to travel to other countries, paid by my employer, would be pretty cool; however, if you’re very much a homebody you may want to look for other positions. (When I was younger I took many paid by work trips and it was really awesome - now I would be less thrilled with this idea.)

[alice_in_wonderland]

@forgottenstar

Yeah, that would have been my first route to go if we actually had an HR department.

And as far as the co-workers, I only asked them how it works with PTO and even ones that have gone over the 11 days per year have not seen any deductions in their paychecks. Thats kind of where all of this is stemming from.

Humm - well that throws a spanner in the works, doesn’t it? When you were hired, who hired you? Who negotiated your salary, gave you your handbook and what not?

I think you should sit down with that person - even if they don’t call themselves HR, they probably have the answers you need.

Also, do you have an employment contract? Or just the handbook? If the latter, read it very carefully - often times handbooks will refer to other documents that are not contained within the book - you could request copies of those document (LOUs or MOUs typically) which may clear a few things up.

ETA - regarding other employees taking more than their 11 days without being docked - again, you can’t apply their circumstances to yours. At my company an employee who has been there for a while can over spend their vacation budget by up to a week and no one really gives a crap - they’re a long term employee. If a person still in their probation period tried it they would get smacked - that could be the difference you’re seeing 'cus you ARE still in probation.