U.S. Support for Israel: Yes or No?

Great Debates
1

My question is should the United States continue to support Israel?

First, I would like to say that I am not a rascist. I grew up in a town of 25-30% Jews and I have a lot of Jewish friends. I am also not muslim and therefore am not simply arguing in support of the Palestinians. Please do not waste my time by responding along racial or prejudicial lines.

Anyways, don’t you think the United States would be better off if we discontinued our support both monetarily and diplomatically? I am not saying we should be against Israel, but simply take a neutral stance on the issue. The United States provides more monetary support for Israel than any other country has in history. We also share military technology with them. However, Israel has on occasion sold our military secrets to OUR enemies. For instance, do you remember the US spy plane that was forced to make an emergency landing in China after being harassed by Chinese fighters a year or two ago? The technology used to make those fighters was sold to China by Israel. This is traitorous. Why do we accept this?

Also, the current hatred for the United States by so much of the world of Islam and the middle east in particular is based in part on our support for Israel. If we withdrew our support, we might be able to turn the situation with the middle east into a peaceful one. Look at it from the Palestinian side: the western world sponsored an INVASION of their territory 50+ years ago. The UN simply took away the land and basically told the Palestinians “too bad.” If this were to happen to the US, do you expect that we would simply accept the foreigners’ presence and go about our business? Especially if they took away a city sacred to us, such as Washington D.C., as was the case with Jerusalem?

Yes, Israel was a good IDEA back at the end of the Holocaust. But it didn’t work out. So why keep going with our support?

2

In what way has Israel not “work[ed] out?”

3

I’d like to request this post be removed on the grounds that it is anti-semitic and uncomfortably close to the “truth”

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Israel has not ‘worked out’ because it has propelled the region into a war which has been fought continously for 50 years and is still not over. Our support for it is a reason for US hatred in the muslim world. This hatred is to blame for the September 11 attacks, USS Cole, etc. Countless bombs have killed hundreds of people in Israel only in the past 10 years. The Bali massacre occured because Islamic extremists wanted to blow up a club thought to be frequented by Americans. This, in my opinion, is not successful.

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The fact that you cannot separate this post from a constructive argument and “anti-semitism” says something about your mental capacity, Azael.

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The old “some of my best friends are _______” statement is not a particularly good way to convince others of your supposed lack of bigotry.

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You might not realize this but Bali is the only island in the archipelago that isn’t Islamic.

The Bali attack wasn’t only targeted at Americans, it was an attack on the Austrailians - whose racist policies have made them no shortage of enemies in the far east. It was also an attack on the economy of Indonesia, the tourism revenues that Bali and places like it in the area are one of the only things Indonesia has had going for it recently in the economic sense. An attack there undermines that economy because suddenly, all those rich Westerners are afraid to come and spend their money. This in turn undermines the Indonesian government which is forced to become more repressive against muslims, driving more people into the arms of the extremists. That Indonesia is a lynchpin of trade for anyone who wants to move between the Indian and Pacific Oceans (oil tankers, etc) demonstrates the strategic importance of this country. Unfortunately, these terrorists seem to know what they are doing.

9

sarcasm doesn’t translate well to text, im sorry

10

I am going out on a limb here to predict that this thread gets locked in about 15 more minutes. Just a guess.

11

I don’t want to get any threads locked, I was just trying to get a knee-jerk reaction one way or the other.

12

Please. To say that the Bali attack was a response to “racist” Australian policy is ridiculous and proves your ignorance of the entire situation. Bin Laden and his followers (even if Jema’ah Islamiyah are not part of al-Qaeda, they are certainly ideological bedfellows) believe that the Islamic world belongs to Muslims only, and there should be no infidels anywhere therein. That’s “Islamic world” as in any territory that is now or has historically been popularly or politically dominated by Muslims - i.e. the range of territory from the Phillippines to Andalusia, or as you might know it, “Spain”. Bali is an island where kids from Australia go to party. As the terrorists see it, slutty white girls in short shorts and halter tops, hanging around drinking and engaging in Western debauchery, on what they consider Islamic land is a big no-no. The fact that the island is largely Hindu is for them an added benefit.

Oh, and lawrinson, just curious: are women who are wearing revealing clothes “asking for it” when they get raped?

13

Should the US withdraw monetary and political support for what remains the only more-or-less democracy in the region, and which, if such support were withrawn, has a better than even chance of being the location of a horrendous massacre? Let me think for a minute. Er, no.

Sorry, the decision against, if made at all, should have been made back in '48. Withdrawing our support now would not absolve us of responsibility for what goes on in that region. Just my opinion.

Also, to pick a nit in the OP:

Because it is not traitorous. The US and China are not currently at war; the fighter in question, the Shenyang J-8 II, I believe, is based on a Russian design, not Israeli, and if you’ll recall the forced landing occurred because of a mid-air collision, which most sources (except China, of course) agree was due to poor airmanship by the Chinese pilot.

The Chengdu F-10 is based on the abandoned Israeli Lavi fighter, but remains in the development phase.

For reference:

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/

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Fang, I am sorry but I do not know which response you are referring to. Where did I say anything along the lines of “are women who are wearing revealing clothes “asking for it” when they get raped?”?

15

Yes, I do believe that monetary and diplomatic support should be withdrawn from Israel. Perhaps a better solution than a sudden cutoff would be a vast reduction in the money and support we give them, allowing them to defend themselves in the event of a genuine attack, but not conduct any “police actions” in the Palestinian territories. Though, I think the most advantageous action for everyone involved would be a radical change in government. Someone a lot more moderate than Sharon would have a peace plan operating more quickly, and if we could find someone more amenable to peace than Arafat, that would help too.

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It doesn’t seem the next Israeli elections are likely to be won by the moderates…

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** lawrinson911 **

I have to agree with milroyj

To me, you show your biase by espousing rhetoric from one side and at the same time trying to over-simplify a very complex situation where the only ones who are to be hurt are those you claim to have no prejudicial or ill intent towards.

Like Azael said, it is very close to the truth. The same way that the “truth” is the only way to have true peace in the Middle-East would be to exterminate every Muslim in the world.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a good idea too, but many blacksand whites were devastated and murdered for it and many whites financially ruined. I believe it took about 100 years to take effect with lots of struggle and blood/sweat/tears. Should we have dropped that?

About sixty years ago we did do what was in the interest of the US and turned a blind eye to anti-semitism and race/religion genocide. And the effects of that is what you see today. Our almost blind support of Isreal.

I do think we should start taking care of our interests a bit more where Isreal is concerned. We should not let them lead us over a cliff, but we should also not shy away from responsibilities even if we take a lick or two.

The only thing that would certainly happen if we went your way would be the utter annhialation of Isreal and most, if not all. of the Jewish population that did not flee. That is why I say it is biased. So a feel-good plan over 60 years old did not work so we should just wash our hands of it? I’m sorry but it wasn’t a plan to bake a new kind of cookie. But to help create and protect a new nation in hostile territory of people who have been (AFAIK) historically extreminated or put in servitude more than any other ethnic/religious people in human history.**

And the other reason you oversimplified it is by stating that for some reason our treachery and abandonment of Isreal would all of a sudden make the muslim world become all fuzzy towards “The Great Satan”. If you honestly think their hatred is solely based on our support for Isreal, prehaps you should try to educate yourself more on an issue before you try to give an hypothesis followed by a declaration of why your argument should not be invalidated.

You forget our economy practically runs on oil. And we get way too much of it from the Middle East. And until we become less dependant on them for it, it is imperative for the US to have somewhat of a control on the situation. And like Fang pointed out, any kind of control by “infidels” of what they think is thiers is unacceptable to many there.

So to take your simplification and make it less genocidal and trecherous, how about we force a permanent boundary with Palestine and Isreal. Maybe help create a Palistinian state acknowledged by the whole world and even put into text books. Completely cut our dependence on foreign, or atleast nonstable oil supplies. Pull all our troops out of the mideast except for Isreal, and there only keep enough to advise and make up where Isreals defense lacks. Let the rest of the world know that any attack on the Isreal is an attack on us and let Isreal know that our support is not unconditional. We should start threatening cutbacks on funds.

18

quote:

Originally posted by lawrinson911
Please do not waste my time by responding along racial or prejudicial lines.

lawrinson911 is quoting himself, how cute. Care to respond to what, I dunno, other people are saying? That would make it a debate, after all.

19

Oh dear. The mods don’t take kindly to that kind of posting behaviour.

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** per capita