UK Driving License and Counterpart, Together for Ever

When I moved back to live in the U.K. a bit over a year ago, I found it necessary to renew my U.K. Driving License, and I got one of the new photo I.D. card ones. However, it also came with a document called the License Counterpart. It contains a little bit (but not very much) more information about me and my driving rights than appear on the license card itself. Also, there were instructions that, as I read them, tell me that it is important to always keep the License card and the Counterpart document together.

Now this makes no sense to me. I would expect, normally, to carry my license with me whenever I am driving (as is the law in California, where I was previously living, and as I generally did with my old British license too). The new license card is small enough to be conveniently carried in a pocket or wallet. However, the Counterpart is an A4 sheet of quite thick paper that would really not be convenient to carry all the time. Therefore, because of the instructions to keep them together, I have been leaving both my license card and the Counterpart at home, even when I am driving.

Unlike in the U.S.A. (or, at least, California) it is not the law in Britain that one must actually be carrying one’s license when driving, and although one may be asked to produce it if stopped by the police in connection with a traffic infraction or other incident, if one cannot produce it on the spot it is quite acceptable to bring it to a police station within a few days of the incident. It is also very rarely necessary in Britain to provide a photo I.D., so the license is not needed for that. (There was a thread about this last point, in MPSIMS I think, not too long ago.)

Nevertheless, I would still like to carry my license with me when I am driving, or even otherwise when I am out. If I ever do get stopped by the police, it will certainly be more convenient to be able to show them my license then and there, rather than having to schlep into a police station to do it later on, and it is also not impossible that I might very occasionally find I need photo I.D. for something else. It also seems to me that it makes sense to keep the license and Counterpart separately for security reasons. If one is lost or stolen, I will still have the other to prove its existence, and a thief will not have both, which will limit his ability to misuse them.

However, because of the instructions to keep them together, I have been doing so, and not carrying either. But the more I think about these instructions, the less sense they make to me. Am I correct in understanding them to say that the License card and the Counterpart must be kept physically together at all times? (It seem to say so pretty clearly, but I just don’t get why.) If yes, do most British people actually do this, and leave both at home as I have been doing (or carry both), or is it a regulation that is honoured much more in the breach than in the observance, and that actually no-one really ever gets in trouble for disobeying? (Also, if yes to the first question, what the hell is the point of this ludicrous regulation?)

I don’t know anyone that carries both. Everyone carries the plastic card - the counterpart lives in a filing cabinet at home. Mind you, I’ve never been stopped by the police so maybe my advice isn’t worth much.

What Scougs said. I still have one of the old paper licences but everyone I know only carries the plastic bit of the new one. (For young people mostly to prove there age in bars!)

I don’t know if the police would require you to produce the second part of the licence if you can show them the photo bit but I’m sure you wouldn’t be in any trouble. Extensive watching of cop chase shows :dubious: suggest they get information on drivers they stop over the air from the main DVLA database.

The law is an ass. Are we surprised? I’ve had producers in the past with the old pink license and the main point was to check you had an current MOT and insurance. Now that’s all computerised I guess they can do those checks with just by googling your numberplate :slight_smile:

Argh, beaten to it.

I just keep the counterpart in a desk drawer - only bring it out if I need to hire a car, which I do from time to time with work. Even then I believe the hire company can phone the DVLA to check points etc so I’m not sure you even need it for that.

Never being on the receiving end of a producer from the police - it sounds like the counterpart as the only source of your endorsement record is something that is on the way out.

What’s the exact wording of the ‘keep together’ instruction? (I only have the paper bit) - are you sure it’s not a bit of legalese about them being ‘taken together’ in the sense that they both form part of the same theoretical document?

The main issue is that when photo cards were introduced, people thought incorrectly that the photo card was enough to act as your legal driving licence, but because the photocard is a bit archaic and doesn’t store all the info about your licence (eg endorsements) then you need both parts when producing your licence as a legal document.

You’re aren’t going to get in trouble by carrying your photo card separately, although it’s fairly pointless as a legal form of ID, unless you want to use it to prove your age in Tescos. If the Police stop you, they will want to see both parts, so you will still have to take the counterpart into a police station.

For this reason, I leave both parts at home, as the photocard serves no purpose carried alone, and I’m quite happy to have a row with the manager in Tescos about whether I’m old enough to buy wine.

[hijack]

I have to ask, how difficult is it to switch your mind over from driving on one side of the road to the other? Turning in intersections, yielding lanes, passing etc.

That’s odd because my Amercian driver’s licence does list my endorsments & restrictions on the back, in abbriviated form. I have gotten a folding paper certificate when I changed my address and got eye surgery, but that was just because my licence hadn’t expired yet.

What if you made a photocopy of the other page, and carried that around with you? Would the cops be happy enough if you showed that?

From time to time, I’ve caught myself going out and forgetting my wallet. (I’ve never been caught without my license by a cop though.) So I got in the habit of keeping a photocopy of my license itself in my car, just in case. The value of doing so has never yet been tested, though. (I’m in California, located in a galaxy near you.)

Is this always true? - I haven’t been stopped by the police in many years, but I understand they now have in-car access to Police national database, including driver licence data from the DVLA.

In that case, the photo card would be sufficient to establish that you are who you claim to be, and would also be sufficient to find your full licence data on the computer. Do they not just do that?

At the top of the Counterpart:

Not difficult at all (and I have now done it several times, in each direction). In fact I was surprised how easy it was to handle this issue when I first got a car in America. Americans driving in Britain, though, need to remember not to try to turn left at a red light (if they are from a state where right on red is allowed), and may take a bit of time to get used to using roundabouts and narrow roads. (And British drivers need to know that drivers on the L.A. freeways are insane, and that not a few Americans rarely bother to indicate before a turn or lane change.)

That is what I would have thought. Perhaps, though, the admonition on the Counterpart dates back to before that was true.

[continuing Hijack]Pretty easy, you just have to concentrate. The problem comes after a day or so when you start to relax, generally pulling out at a junction or something when there is no other car around to remind you!

I still have nightmares about turning the wrong way down a one way street in Miami into the face of four solid lanes of traffic :smack: [/Hijack]

BTW, here is the link that this thread demands: DO NOT CLICK THIS!

Oh, wait. I get it now. Sorry - I thought your account had been compromised or something.

You clicked anyway, didn’t you. :smiley:

Easy. Brits do it all the time on trips to the continent. Main issues tend to be road positioning ( your passenger will remind you frequently that you’re heading for the ditch), and getting into the car on the wrong side. It’s surprisingly instinctual to switch from using a left hand stick to a right hand one and visa versa.

This thread has made me realize that I don’t know where my counterpart is! My previous wallet was big enough that I could carry both with the counterpart folded up in a plastic covering. The new wallet is too small for that. I have the photo ID in it for the occasional ID check. I’ll need to search around at home to see if I can find the counterpart.

Can’t really see the point as the original is no thicker than a photocopy. Anyway, you don’t need to carry your license, or any ID, with you in the UK.

roundabouts are easy, they’re popping up all over the place in Michigan. Though I wouldn’t want to deal with anything like that monstrosity in Swindon…