UK Law: Picketing/Demonstrations

Factual Questions
21

In the early 1980’s six of us were recruited to sell computers for Rank Xerox UK

They gave us a wonderful training course, about 8 weeks live in at Newport Pagnal, the food was superb, the bar shut early, the beer was lousy, but so what - we just bought trays of Guinness and Cider - aye - it were grand.

Anyway, one day we had to read the software and hardware contracts, which were in minute print on pink paper, on the back of the order forms.

By the time we got half way through, two of us - me and this guy who is now rather famous - started shouting ‘this just ain’t legal’

They were getting a bit worried about us by then, Gamma types training Alphas, so they got onto the RX internal legal department - and would you believe it - the contract was just not legal - in the UK - or I reckon Scotland.

That was a long winded way of saying that the small print might not be legal.

  • always worth checking …

In your case you just want your machine fixed - and a pound of flesh, droigt de seigneur on the St Hubbins daughters, and him to clean your shoes for life.

Not unreasonable.

It is pretty cheap to buy a domain, chances are that the guy is technically illiterate, so he might be rather worried if you sent him the address of a site that defamed him.

As a warm up on the physical confrontation side, just leafleting cars parked in Stow would spook him.

If my memories of Stow are correct (and my aged and unpleasant mother lives in Moreton) you don’t need to do much to spook the guy - the place is a gossip-fest.

Frankly I reckon the guy is a fool, a £5 VGA card costs him nothing, and motherboards are what sets the standards - if it don’t plug into the IDE, EIDE etc slot then it is not sold.

How about publishing his name, address and precise details of your gripe

  • Mr St Hubbins could have his 15 minutes of fame
22

Thanks for the links.

It seems that a one-man protest might be easier to pull off than I thought. Most regulations which apply to protests, picketing and demonstrations focus on multi-person events. I don’t see anything specified in those articles which can stop me executing Plan B should I deem it necessary.

Reading back, the only comment here that concerns me slightly (except for the clown suit) is this from Mangetout:

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

23

A few observations:

  1. you state in post #5 that your motive is revenge. Have you heard the expression about digging two graves?

  2. ALWAYS read the small print. If you didn’t bother to read the contract before signing it, that’s your tough luck.

  3. you state in post #18 that you need it for business purposes. Let’s see if I have this straight. Your business depends on a single vital piece of equiptment, whiuch should it fail leaves you up a creek.You don’t have a backup computer to use if the main one fails? Your bad planning.

  4. The only likely outcome of your proposed action is that you will be banned from the shop. It’s very unlikely that you will persuade anyone else not to shop there.

  5. Think of the expense of what you plan to do. You will have to:

24

(damn, that was posted too soon)

you will have to :

  • hire or buy some sort of costume
  • print out leaflets
  • take time off work while you do this

  1. If anyone pays any attention to you at all, they will probably think you are an idiot. Remember those guys that dressed up like Batman to protest something or other? People just laughed at them, they didn’t really get much attention for their cause.

  2. You’re more likely to damage the reputation of your own business, rather than theirs.

All in all, best if you forget it. Have you tried writing to BBC Watchdog?

25

See, http://www.fasken.com/WEB/fmdwebsite.nsf/AllDoc/50E452890BEBA83885256C61006AAA3D/$File/P_NAGY_PEPSI_ARTICLE_OCT.A.PDF

26

I found this(WARNING: it’s an islamic anti-Israel web page, but I don’t think that compromises the specific data we’re after here).

Looks like you need to make sure you’re standing on public property (this may not be the case for a car park in a shopping development), and you need to make sure you don’t actually prevent anyone from entering the store, and your brazier would probably be considered an obstruction.

27

I want an engineer to come out and fix my computer.

As for revenge, do you have a sense of humour?

Normally I would agree with you. In this case it wouldn’t have done any good. As previously stated.

Thanks for the sympathy.

My partner’s business is that of accountant.

She works from home 2 days per week. She works in an office 3 days a week. She can use the computer in her employer’s office. I don’t feel it is essential to inform Acme of this contingency plan.

I don’t object to being banned from a shop I never intend to use again, subject to the shop fulfilling its service contract with us.

I do not intend to persuade people not to shop there. I intend to advise them that reading the Terms & Conditions would be good idea before agreeing a purchase.

You don’t have a sense of humour do you?

We’ll do it on our home printer. Or somebody else’s printer. It will cost pennies.

I will visit on Saturday & Sunday. The store is probably at its busiest on those days.

Do you really think I intend to wear a costume?

It’s a small business, as previously mentioned. It’s my partner’s business. My name is not associated with the business.

I’ve already answered that question.

If there’s anything else you want to know don’t hesitate to repost.

28

You just did. I work for “Acme” and I’m pretty sure I know who you are.
ps just kidding. How’s that for a sense of humour? :stuck_out_tongue:
But seriously, if the need is not so urgent as all that, why the fuss? It seems you’re gouing to a lot of bother to solve a petty annoyance.

29

If it’s truly the case that the contract supports your argument, then really what you need to do is consult a lawyer and get him or her to negotiate with the dealer. That is, if what you want is for them to send a technician to fix it (An engineer? Why the heck would you hire an engineer to fix a computer? Bit of overkill, isn’t it?). I can’t imagine how picketing is going to persuade them to see your point of view.

30

IIRC, the wizard says something similar to * “I can’t make you smart, but I can give you a degree.”* I always thought it was a deliberate comment on the educational system, that giving someone a degree does not always mean they are particularly bright.

31

I’m not sure the detail is applicable to UK jurisdiction but it certainly helps.

I appreciate the trouble you have taken to find the information given here and earlier…

32

That’s excellent.

I’m far more optimistic now although its a shame to lose the brazier. Thanks very much.

33

You had me worried for about 5 seconds there. :slight_smile:

The annoyance factor centres upon the fact we don’t like powering down and switching off the machine. It’s when restarting from scratch that the noise occurs. It doesn’t sound too healthy when it happens. Sure, the problem is not urgent but it does need fixing. Using the in-home service we have paid for. Also, one of the USB ports is useless. I didn’t mention this to Acme on the basis that running two problems across the company at the same time might have confused them. I’ll refer to it when the time is right.

It’s not really a lot of bother to print off some A4 sheets with a short message then go and dish them out. Admittedly many people may regard it as a lot of fuss. My partner certainly does. I’m just preparing the ground for all possible courses of action should St. Hubbins reply in the negative.

I’ll let you know what happens in the fullness of time. Unless you read about it in the press first of course.

34

Engineer is Acme’s choice of terminology, not mine.

Hiring a lawyer isn’t out of the question but it’s an option I’d prefer to keep up my sleeve. I think you are wrong about the picketing. Firstly it should embarrass the company and secondly it might be fun. Doubtless a few more letters will be exchanged before I take any definite action.

Haven’t you ever wanted to picket the premises of someone who has wronged you?

35

The small print might not be legal.

It could also fall foul of the Unfair Terms in Contracts Act. I’m looking into that.

It is, and I think I know your mother.

I’m trying to be even handed by keeping the details of the company anonymous until the issue is resolved one way or the other. It would be unfair to name names when there is still a chance of a bloodless victory for la familia Guevara.

36

From the Daily Sport

Stow man arrested for wearing red nose and advising customers of their rights. Thrown into jail with 2 lesbian sisters and refuses bail

37

Those warranties are useless and extremely poor value for money.

To get yourself a far better warranty, and for less than one third the price, you would be far better going to an insurance broker, one that deals with the Lloyds insurance markets.

They push these damn warranties because of the extremely high margins on them.

Next, you could take the actual terms and conditions booklet to your local citizens advice- the text size has to conform to a certain size, below that and it may be declared void, and illegal contract.

The problem with an illegal contract is that you may well only get recompense for the cost of the extra warranty.

But… you do have a far better avenue.

All items that are sold must be ‘fit for purpose’ - a computor that cost significantly more than the going rate, and which you have had to call out for warranty repair alread and on several occasions is definately not ‘fit for purpose’.

It the diagnosis on the graphics card is that the fan is going down, after just 8 months, it has to be a manufacturing fault, its not user interactive part so there is no way they could claim you damaged it.

You must give them a reasonable cahnce to make good, but what is reasonable ?

This is actually where your argument may well lie, you could ask them to supply you with another machine until yours has been repaired, this would be quite reasonable.

Replacing the graphics card is actually a less than half hour job, to be without for 10 days does not seem reasonable to me, replacing the motherboard would also likely mean reinstalling the operating system and your software, this would take somewhat longer, a morning or so.

If you can arrange an appointment to take your machine in for repair on a particular day, or at least you offer to do so, then you will demonstrate your own reasonableness.

The best solution would be to go to one of your local colleges, do a night school course on building computors, you can then put what you want in there, and tinker around, and if anything goes down, you look on EBAY and get another item.

38

First off, go speak to Trading Standards. You pay for them, so you might as well use them. One of the things you should do is ask them if the size of the print renders the contract invalid. My search-fu is lacking - and if you’re in the Stow in Scotland it may not apply anyway - but I do recall some small print being thrown out as it was too small. So ask about it.