UK Law: Picketing/Demonstrations

Factual Questions
1

I don’t think the UK legal system is well represented on this board (except maybe for defendants) but some readers may have personal experiences to relate which may answer my question.

I have embarked upon a dispute with the supplier of my computer system. This dispute is best described by posting my recent letter to the company concerned:
.
.
.
Mr. D. St. Hubbins
Managing Director,
Acme Technology plc,
Etc.

Dear Mr. St. Hubbins,

On 25 October 2006 we spoke to three of your employees - Nigel Tufnell in Consumer Technical Support, Joe “Mama” Besser in Customer Care and a Mr. Derek Smalls. We described the following problem to them:

When we attempt to power up our system there is very often a loud humming noise coming from the CP. When this happens we switch off and try a reboot. Sometimes this works, on other occasions it does not. In other words the problem is intermittent. When it does happen the noise is worrying.

We would like an engineer to visit our home and rectify the problem. When we bought the system on 2 March 2006 we invested in an upgrade to Acme Silver 3 Year Warranty (1 year in-home (OSM) service (parts & labour) followed by 2nd and 3rd year Return to Base (RTB, labour only). Your staff is unanimous in their position that we can only have this problem fixed if we return the machine to base quoting a possible rectification lead time of 7-10 days.

This is unacceptable.

It has been explained to us that an engineer cannot visit our home because the likely actual repair time is 1 day, and that a visiting engineer could only stay for about 2 hours. It has been explained also that a new video card is probably required (the current card is now obsolete) and that a replacement motherboard may also be necessary.

We are advised that Acme reserves the right to demand a return to base should circumstances require it. We are informed also that this clause is stipulated in the contract Terms & Conditions.

We are further advised that we should have read your Terms & Conditions at your store before we made the purchase of the system. A copy of these Terms & Conditions and a magnifying glass are enclosed with this letter.

We wish to make the following points:

  1. We requested a service upgrade to in-home for year 1 and paid for it accordingly. As far as we were concerned that gave us in-home service for year 1. At the point of sale, we were not informed of any exclusions to the in-home service.

  2. Nobody advised us to read the Terms & Conditions at the point of sale.

  3. We doubt that many (if any) of your customers read the Terms & Conditions before making a purchase.

  4. The Terms & Conditions are displayed in such a way that they cannot be easily read.

  5. We have now read the Terms & Conditions. We can find no reference whatever to any conditions which may apply to the Acme Silver 3 Year Warranty.

  6. We feel strongly that we have been mis-sold the service upgrade we bought from you.

  7. We cannot manage without a computer for 7-10 days. This is why we purchased the service upgrade in the first place.

It may interest you to know that this is our second Acme system. We did not buy our computer from you using price as the major criterion. There are many systems on the market which are less expensive. We bought the system with service in mind. Until now, and on the few occasions we have found it necessary to call you, this service has been par excellence.

Yours sincerely etc.
.
.
.
Obviously I don’t expect any satisfaction from Mr. St. Hubbins so I have a Plan B. I intend to picket the store. I will print a shedload of leaflets bearing the legend:

Please remember to read the Terms & Conditions of sale, specifically those referring to warranty and service upgrades, before making your purchase.

I will hand a leaflet to every driver who enters the store carpark. I will stand right by the entrance but avoid stepping on the company premises.

Does anyone see a potential legal problem with Plan B? I sincerely hope not because I really want to make my point in the most visible way possible.

2

IANAL, but I’m sure I remember reading something to the effect that this would be ‘interfering with trade’ or something like that.

Also, if you hand out a bunch of leaflets and everybody you give them to drops them in the car park, you might be perceived as having caused a littering problem, even though you weren’t the actual person dropping the litter.

Just out of interest, what would you hope to achieve from this action?

3

I sympathise with you, however…

The fact that nobody advised you to read the Terms and Conditions is irrelevant whether they can be easily read or not.

The simple truth is that you are ** expected** to read these terms without being told to do so.

I can’t see how you can be held responsible for any littering, you give the leaflet away and if the recipient decides to dump it then the onus is on him/her.

After all, if you buy fish and chips and dump the wrappers the chip shop owner can’t be held responsible for your actions.

As ** Mangetout asks, what do you expect to achieve

4

Well Chez,

What you really want is to be nicked for something.

It would hit the National papers and give Mr St Hubbins some thoroughly unwanted publicity. Have you considered wearing a clown suit ?
‘Don’t be a clown, read the small print’

  • you could get on TV - not joking.

Incidentally it sounds like a fan that is playing up, possibly the one on the CPU

  • I had something similar and the jerk in my local computer shop tried to tell me I needed a new CPU - ergo new motherboard - ergo new case.
5

Somehow I don’t think the company will appreciate the idea of someone handing these leaflets to prospective customers.

It’s more than likely it will suffer some embarrassment. It’s possible someone will emerge from the store and agree to our demands for justice. Otherwise revenge will do quite nicely as a motive.

It’s a pity I can’t reproduce the font size of the contract of sale. Anyone wishing to read it needs 20/20 vision and a great deal of concentration. Or a magnifying glass. Naturally our letter was printed using the largest font size possible consistent with good letter writing practice. It runs to 4 pages. I can read it from about 10 paces. The contrast with the contract font is wonderfully obvious.

Small print in contracts is gratuitous. Logically there is no need for it. From a commercial point of view one must assume the company doesn’t want customers to read it. If they did, it wouldn’t be small print. It would be big print.

We understand fully that the company has no liability in a legal sense for issuing contracts in small print. We understand also that legally it is not obliged to warn us to read the contract. It would be more ethical if it did but ethicality does not equate to legality. More is the pity.

In this case however the small print reveals nothing about our service upgrade to in-home for year 1. We think also that we should have been informed of the exclusions to the in-home service at the point of sale.

That is why we are seriously pissed off.

6

I said that a person doing this might be perceived as causing a litter problem. Comparatively unpopulated car park + lots of leaflets fluttering about + person standing there with a handful of the same leaflets… 2+2+2 = 10! “Hello, police? yes, there’s a guy throwing litter around and generally making a nuisance of himself in our car park!”

7

Perhaps partly true, but part of the reason it’s small print is that there is a lot to say, and a small space in which to say it.

This is the bit I don’t understand. You’re going to tell people “Make sure you read the small print, because that doesn’t help”… :confused:

I think your plan is almost certain to fail. If you want to apply embarrassing leverage on them, you’re more likely to succeed by involving Trading Standards, or BBC Watchdog, or your local newspaper.

8

I saw somebody doing this the other week at a computer store in Edinburgh. He’d bought a laptop bag which was obviously defective, but the owners refused to replace it. On the way to Tesco, we saw him stood outside of the shop shouting not to buy anything from them and explaining what had happened.

When we’d finished shopping, he’d gone, obviously either he got bored or the shop eventually replaced it for him.

9

I can picture the corporate lackeys quaking in their boots:

*“Oh God, Mark. Don’t tell me he’s really…”

“Yes. He’s handing out leaflets that warn people to read their Terms & Conditions.”

“NO!!! NOT LEAFLETS! ANYTHING BUT LEAFLETS!”*

10

Nigel Tufnell told me the cause of the problem is (probably) the fan on the video card. Smalls agreed with Tufnell. Apparently this necessitates a new video card with the possibility of a replacement motherboard. Don’t ask me why. I get the impression the fan can’t be replaced of itself.

I had considered the possibility of arrest but I don’t think it will happen because of the bad publicity you mention for the company concerned.

Stow Man Arrested For Reminding Customers Of Their Rights would be a great headline though. Better still, if I tipped off The Sun we could soon be reading:

Stow Clown Man In Small Print Slapstick Red Nose Protest Drama Thrown In Jail And Left To Rot Shock Horror!!

I find the idea quite seductive.

11

I don’t buy that.

The additional costs of printing a contract in a larger font must be infinitesmal.

From the OP:

Please remember to read the Terms & Conditions of sale, specifically those referring to warranty and service upgrades, before making your purchase.

If a prospective customer reads the contract and finds no information relevant to, for example, a service upgrade to in-home then he may be motivated to ask some pointed questions.

Why would it fail?

I agree Trading Standards is an option (I am looking into the Unfair Terms in Contracts Act) but you might agree it is less exciting. Watchdog gets many enquiries and tends to concentrate on those issues which have wide public appeal.

12

Is there a lot of blank space on the document? if not, then the cost of using a larger font is the cost of running to a second or perhaps third page; doubling or tripling the cost of the print run. But that’s only part of the issue; if the same volume of text had been printed in a larger font, would that have persuaded you to wade through it?

Well, for one thing, you’re proposing turning what it currently a dispute into a conflict.

13

I think you should take it to the small claims. Unless there is a clause in the T&Cs that says something like “we reserve the right to alter these Ts&Cs at any time without telling you, yar boo sucks”.

If, however, you’re planning to picket and dress up, don’t dress up as a clown; dress up as a martyr - loincloth, cross, crown of thorns. Instead of “INRI”, you could have a sign that says “Acme T&Cs”. Hand out printed wafers instead of leaflets, too. Call the local paper beforehand too to let them know you’ll be there. Nothing like a bit of religious controversy!

14

Also, make sure that the cost of printing your leaflets, plus the cost of the time you spend standing in the rain distributing them, comes to more than the amount in dispute. This is sure to endear you to press and public alike.

15

The Terms & Conditions appear on the third and last page of the order confirmation.

This is printed out while-u-wait on plain A4 paper. I don’t follow that an extra 2 or 3 pages is going to erode the company profit margins to such an extent it becomes a concern for that company.

I’ll wade through the Terms & Conditions next time I buy anything of value. Of course, I’ll need laser treatment on my eyes first.

Not at all.

I’m merely escalating a problem.

16

Well, OK then… I do think you’re escalating it in a direction that reduces the number of possible satisfactory outcomes, but I wish you the best of luck.

17

Sure, that’s another possibility.

I want to prepare my ground for likely fallback situations should Mr. St. Hubbins refuse to play ball. Hence my original question.

I’m not sure about the Eucharist. I could have the message printed on the back of pieces of toast though. Then if it was a quiet day at the store I could eat the toast. I’ve always wanted to eat my own words. Also, toast is more nutritious than mere wafers.

I’m going to get a brazier as well. I can warm my hands over it like they did during the miners strike in '84.

Oh, and a little hut. In case it gets really cold.

18

The amount in dispute is difficult to calculate.

Where an engineer visits and fixes the problem we are without a computer for several hours. If we return to base we are without it for 7-10 days. We need it for business purposes. And for posting on this message board. The actual cost of taking it back to the store is negligible.

I’ll review matters when I have a reply from St. Hubbins. No firm decision will be taken while the situation remains fluid.

Thanks :slight_smile:

19

Good luck with Trading Standards, when I tried to enlist their help I just got the run around and was pointed to their web site where they had some sample letters you could use in your dispute. They did quote some of the legislation available for hard done by customers though.
I was sent some faulty goods and because I paid with a credit card it enabled me to use that threat to get my money repaid. I don’t know if you can do the same.
Sometimes you can be lucky and get an appointment with a Citizens Advice Bureau solicitor for free, for the information you need about the law.
Personally I don’t discount the picketing/ embarassment to the company factor though if you’ve got the perseverance.

20

Found these on UK protest laws:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A1930916#7
http://www.yourrights.org.uk/your-rights/chapters/the-right-of-peaceful-protest/the-formal-regime-for-regulating-public-protest/picketing.shtml (see bottom of page)
http://tash.gn.apc.org/trespas1.htm