Ultra-Orthodox Jews of New York spreading covid and other problems (ed. title)

Well, this is the PIT, so I doubt it matters, but yeah, Orthodox Jews contribute to society.

Cites even! In the Pit!

Have ultra-orthodox Jews ever contributed anything positive to society?

Have you?

Aside from the plasma donations referenced a couple posts ago I believe in New York City they run an ambulance service. The thing is, Haredi Jews (which are the ones pointed to so far) tend to live separately from the rest of society and thus are not really in a position to make major contributions to the larger whole - you don’t get a lot of “great for the country as a whole” things from the Amish, either, as another example of a semi-separated community.

You can, of course, criticize any group without being a racist or anti-Semite, but it’s easy to give that impression if you aren’t careful about your wording. Within Judaism the ultra-Orthodox certainly do have their critics. I, for one, find their sub-culture stifling for reasons I could go into but don’t have time for at the moment but I could level the same criticisms for the same reasons towards other groups.

What about those damned Druids? What have they done for us lately? :angry:

They throw hella parties around the solstice. :wink:

Their schools are bullshit that are giving their kids a third grade education at best. They tend to be anti-vax in general, so they can fuck right off for that, too. They are a major outbreak source in southern NJ and Rockland County, NY, because they don’t follow mask or social gathering rules. They are misogynists who throw rocks at girls going to school in Israel. They cover for sexual assault in their communities.

Calling them assholes is an insult to assholes. Calling them out isn’t anti-Semitic any more than calling out radical Christian groups is anti-Christian. Fred Phelps and his fellow Christians are shitstains, and I feel comfortable saying that without worrying about being called anti-Christian. The Taliban are misogynist assholes and I’m happy to call them that without worrying about being anti-Muslim.

I’m happy they give lots of blood and thank them for that. The same devotion to the commands of their rabbi also leads to the anti-mask, misogynistic, anti-vax behavior, though.

Hasidim are a subset of Orthodox Jews, and it’s not clear from the story that Hasidim, or other ultra-Orthodox Jews (there are ultra-Orthodox Jews who are not Hasidim) are the exclusive source of the thousands of plasma donations.

That said, the OP is, as I read it, talking about Brooklyn’s Hasidic communities, specifically those who live in Borough Park, Brooklyn (who are, I think, the Bobov Hasidim).

As a non-Jewish neighbor, yes, Hasidim are (and were even before the pandemic) difficult neighbors. A discussion of how that is and how it’s become a real issue in these pandemic times is probably best had outside the Pit.

If you reconsider, I’d be curious to hear your take.

This episode of This American Life (not exactly a right wing source) made my blood boil a few years back. Basically, ultra orthodox Jews take over a school board by virtue of having a voting bloc. Their kids don’t go to the public schools, which are mostly Black and Latino kids, but private yeshivas. So, the newly elected school board just starts dismantling the district and siphoning money into their private schools.

I grew up among these groups, and largely had a dismissive view of them; they kept to themselves, and it was like living among ghosts because there was just no interaction. But, this really made me furious that stuff like this exists. And, by definition, it was not a few bad apples. It required the voting bloc of the entire community to accomplish.

Sure, but why are they in a position to do this? It’s because they have a whole lot of people who got infected because they are ignorant science deniers who refused to implement social distancing. That’s why they have a lot of convalescent plasma in their community available to donate. But yes, kudos to them for now helping to fight the disease that they helped to spread. While they still demonstrate against masking and social distancing measures.

Please, this is why threads like this are so awful. It is not all or even most Orthodox Jews that are anti-vaxxers and against masks and all that dumb ass crap. I don’t pretend to know the breakdown, but the broad brush leads to anti-semitism.

I’ll take two Druids if you’ll take three Zoroastrians.

:shudder:

Defining any universe/population by its tiny fractional (usually extreme) minorities is poison. Totally agree.

OK, it’s just the Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn, Queens, Rockland County, and south Jersey that I know about. There’s another outbreak in a Hasidic Jewish area in Far Rockaway, Queens. What are the chances? Amazing!

Then … to argue against what I just said … there are cases where you’re defining the universe by the overwhelming majority – maybe like saying that “All these damned Evangelical Christians seem to believe in God.”

:slight_smile:

I was mainly commenting on where Reimann probably unintentionally and falsely made it sound like all Orthodox Jews “ignorant science deniers …”

BTW: by South Jersey do you mean Lakewood? That is Central Jersey.

I agree that a group shouldn’t be defined by its extreme minorities - but there’s also a difference between defining all of Christianity by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church and defining the members of that church by those actions.

The OP may have painted with too broad a brush in referring to Ultra-Orthodox Jews ( it might be only a couple of Hasidic sects that refuse to use masks - I don’t know) - but it didn’t refer to the entire universe of Orthodox Jews.

Well they certainly claim to believe in God, from what I can gather from their literature and various television programming. But I wouldn’t claim to speak to their beliefs.

Please read the post above yours.

Maybe to those of you down at Exit 1 or something, but to those of us up in the 140s? It’s south!

Anyway, Orthodox, maybe even ultra-Orthodox is too broad of a brush, but Hasidim? I have no time for them. Anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-school. And, if you say anything negative, they say it’s because you’re anti-Semitic. Total bullshit. I can say terrible things about the Westboro Baptist church and no one will seriously think that’s because I’m anti-Christian.

DavidNRockies, is there no subset small enough that you can’t make any generalizations? Hasidim are a tiny subset of radical Jews. ISIS is a tiny subset of Islam. Westboro is a tiny subset of Christianity. Can I tar ISIS or the Taliban with being misogynist and violent? What about fundamentalist Mormons – can I say that they exploit children and women? How about moving away from religions – can I say the American White Supremacists are violent?