Unattended Children: Rate these scenarios

[SkeptiJess]

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

Nope. When my kids were 8, I wanted to know where they were at all times. I expected them to check in with me throughout the day and let me know what they were up to.

2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

For my kids this would have been a ‘no.’ Neither of them was familiar enough with public transportation to do this unsupervised. If I had taken them on a number of trial runs, and felt they were familiar enough with the situation to do it solos, then maybe. But probably not – I don’t think my kids would have been mature enough at 11 to be trusted with this.

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

This one is probably a ‘yes.’ Providing that the route was very familiar to them and reasonably well lit (street lights and/or plenty of houses). My kid’s middle school was about a mile and a half from our home and Nick walked to school every morning and home every afternoon – he knew the way like the back of his hand. It was a safe, well-lit neighborhood . I would have let him walk home at night at 13 so long as it was no later than 10 or so.

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

Nope. Never.

5) A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

Only if I was going to drop the books in the dropbox and come right back out.

[dangermom]

@Manda JO

If the book drop was RIGHT inside the door, I’d be more likely to pull up to the curb and watch as the six year old carried the books in, provided they would be in line of sight the whole time–especially, if, again, the baby had been sick/cranky and was finally peacefully sleeping.

When I mentioned bookdrops, I meant the outside ones that are generally there for after-hours dropoffs–my library prefers that books always be returned there, since the drop is right next to the check-in computer and the inside drop has to be hauled back. I was envisioning parking at the curb, hopping out to shove books through the wall, and going back. Don’t all libraries have those things?

My general rule of thumb is that if I can’t see the car from where I’m going, the kids are coming with me. So I’ll leave them to stand at a doorway or drop something at an outside drop, but not if I’m going inside or more than, say, 20-30 feet away, or longer than a couple of minutes.

[Sarah_Woodruff]

@carlotta

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

Totally unacceptable, these days, IMHO. He’s too young to judge whether he’s getting into an unsafe situation.

2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

I’d be worried if it was my sister or daughter, but it depends on her maturity level. I was the kind of dorky 11 year old who would want to do this, but since my Mum is a teacher, she was able to take me out for the day to museums, galleries, etc. during the holidays.

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

mmm… Unacceptable.

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

That would only be acceptable if the house was a physically safe environment and the 18 monther couldn’t leave his crib, and the parent comes back directly.

5. A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

Unacceptable to me, but that’s because I live in a part of the world where a car parked in the sun very quickly heats up to a temperature that is fatal to dogs, cats and children.

[AThingWithFeathers]

1. No way. If I did that when I was eight, I wouldn’t have gone outside my yard at all for a long while. If a child, especially as young as eight, can get away with leaving the house unsupervised without anyone aware of his whereabouts, I would probably think the parents were CPS material.
2. Eleven? Never. Especially not alone on public transportation. In my case, she would have been in NYC, where I’d be hesitant to let her walk the streets alone. Not that it’s extremely likely that anything will happen inside the museums or anything, but getting there and back, way too dangerous for someone that age.
3. Heh, I would have done this at thirteen, but the shortcut to my house involved going through the woods. It depends on the maturity of the boy, but if the area is safe, like the question says, I’d be less worried.
4. No. Never leave a baby that young all along in house. If I saw this happening, I’d probably get someone to have a stern talk with the parent in question.
5. My mom did this all the time, and for a lot longer than a few minutes. (Try two hours if she was inside Grand Union.) I don’t think it’s illegal in New York, like N. Sane said it was in Texas, because I doubt my mom would do anything she could prosecute in Family Court. The only factor I’d be worried about is the 2 and 6 year olds relationship. If they hated each other and constantly had to be pulled off each other for biting and scratching and tackling, like my sister and I did ( four and six though, up until we were eleven and thirteen, though not so much biting and tackling then), then I’d say the parent was insane.

[pasunejen]

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

Bad. The parents of a child this age (and at least arguably even kids much older) should have at least a general idea of where the child is at all times.
2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

Too young. At 13 or 14, maybe, and then preferably with a friend or two.

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

It seems rather late for that. I’d prefer that he at least be walking with a friend, but best of all would be for him to be picked up. Even if the neighborhood isn’t generally dangerous, stuff can happen.
4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

It depends upon how long the block is. Ideally this wouldn’t happen, but I just can’t see waking a child up from his/her nap for a brief trip to the corner.
5) A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

Okay as long as the mother never loses sight of the car. They’re too young yet for her to actually go inside.

[MLS]

#1 depends on the area, but 8 y.o. is a bit young. I’d want him/her to be back at a specific time and to know where he/she is going.

2 & # 3, also no. Too young, too many unknowns.

#4 sets off alarms in my head. An 18-month old is old enough to do lots of things and can get into danger very quickly. Absolutely not to be left alone in the house. I’d sooner stand at the door and watch the older child.

5 is iffy. Depends on how far the bookdrop is. Also depends who/what is around, what the temperature is, etc. A 15-second dash with the car in sight and nobody is around is probably o.k. A 2 minute walk leaving the children alone in the car on a busy street is asking for trouble. Sending the older child while you watch from the car is a better choice.

I know a lot of folks say these ideas are paranoid, but I wouldn’t have risked it.

Plural of anecdote is not data, but: About 20 years ago there was a family in my neighborhood with about 5 children who pretty much did what they wanted and came home when they were hungry. Parents rarely knew exactly where the children were, even the youngest, who was about 5 during the time I’m speaking of. One October evening after supper the teenage daughter told her parents, “I’m going out,” and left the house. She was found a day later, murdered, in the woods about a quarter mile or so from her home. The killer was never identified. The police didn’t even know where to start, since the parents knew nothing about who she had been with, who her usual companions were, where she generally went when she was “out.” Police dogs followed her scent a short way down the road, but no further, leading the cops to guess she was picked up by someone in a car. Friend? Foe? Nobody knows. And this is a quiet, safe residential neighborhood.

[hildea]

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

I’d expect to have a general idea – know where (s)he plans to go, and of course I’d know who (s)he usually spends time with. I’d expect some kind of contact at meal times, but a phone call (Can I eat dinner at Bjørn’s place?) would be enough. And of course, I’d expect the child to be home at bed time. Dusk is far too late – in summer, that’s around midnight!

2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

How large is “large”? I’ve never (not counting brief visits) lived in a city that was so big I felt it was unsafe in broad daylight on the main streets, but that might be partly naivity on my part.
Taking the bus alone at 11 seems OK, if the parents have taken the time to make him/her used to it. Spending a few hours (not the whole day) at a museum or library alone at 11 seems OK too. Spending a whole day with no adult supervision/back up is too much. Cell phone contact might help, but I’d still be uneasy.

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

No problem at all. Two and a half kilometers isn’t much of a distance. (I walked two kilometers each way to school from age 7.) 9 pm isn’t all that late. And darkness isn’t a relevant factor. I expect my six-year-old to be able to walk alone after dark (but not that far, of course – a few hundred meters at most). But then, in winter it gets dark here around 4 pm.

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

A younger baby, no problem. At worst it’ll wake up and scream a while. But IIRC 18 months is around that age our children managed to climb out of the crib. All mobility, no survival instinct. Not good.

5) A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

Unless it’s very hot or very cold, it’s probably not dangerous at all. But I’m still uneasy about it. If the car is in sight of the parent the whole time, no problem. If not, um. (Besides, it’s a library! Take the children with you, spend some time there reading, let them pick a stack of books to take home!)

[rjung]

@carlotta

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

:eek:

@carlotta

2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

:eek:

Slightly less :eek: if she has a cell phone and checks in regularly, but still…

@carlotta

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

:eek: again.

@carlotta

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

:eek:

@carlotta

5. A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

Depends on how far away the library/book drop is. If it’s more than 50 feet, :eek:

[don_t_ask]

1. No way. At that age I would want to know where he was and who he was with at all times. I expect anyone I live with to say something about where they are going and what they aare doing whenever they go out. I do. Even if it’s just “I’m off to the shop. Back in ten.”

2. No. I would happily let her go with a bunch of friends assuming that they are fairly responsible.

3. I would prefer that he didn’t walk home alone but if he felt comfortable I wouldn’t want to shake his sense of confidence so would allow it.

4. No way. Fraught with danger. Even the thought of an extremely unlikely fire would prevent me doing this even with a younger child.

5. I wouldn’t plan to be returning books to the library while out with two children. If I happened to arrive at the library and then realise my quandry, I would wait for someone else going in and ask them would they mind dropping off my books. Barring that I would unbuckle the kids, carry the 2 year old and let the 6 year old lug the books.

[Hokkaido_Brit]

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

Not acceptable. I want to know that my kid has made a plan with the other kid and the mother, and that they will be where they say they will be. My 8 year old is very unreliable, so up till now the longest he’s been allowed out with his friends has been two hours, and I went to find him before the time was up because I was worried sick! His classmates are allowed considerably more freedom for a variety of reasons ranging from “because the kid is reliable” to “the parents don’t give a toss”.
2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

No, I don’t think so. With friends and a couple of years later, fine.
3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

As a kid I was scared of the dark and I wouldn’t want my kid to feel the way I did walking home! But my kid will probably have to do this, living in Japan, and the way their JHS school schedules get. Our area is very safe though so it will probably be OK. That and there are lots of kids doing it, so it is normal.

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

I did do this, every day the winter my older boy was a kindergartener. It was dead winter, minus 20C and the baby would fall asleep for his two hour nap usually half an hour or so before I had to go out to the bus stop to get the bigger kid. The teacher on the bus wouldn’t let the kid off unless the parent was there, so I had to go. I just couldn’t face waking and dressing in snow suit, hat, gloves and boots and then hauling a screaming toddler out in the snow and wind. So I left him. It was nerve wracking but nothing ever happened. I had locks on his windows, and a hook and eye at the top of his bedroom door so he was totally crated. And he slept on a futon so there was nothing to climb. I’d switch the stove off and often run back ahead of the kindergartener to get back quicker. I’d be out of the house 15-20 minutes at a time. My big worry was an earthquake. It was NOT the right thing to do but I still can’t see a way I could have done it differently.
5) A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do this a lot, I must confess (stopping off to buy milk at the corner shop on the way home etc) I have a strict rule that they are not to unbuckle and I am gone only a minute or two at most. If there is a line I come out again. I would NEVER EVER do this in England, or in the bigger towns I have lived, but in our little town it’s fine.

[NinetyWt]

I’ll be the curious one, carlotta. Why do you ask? Is this a research project? (Not snarking, I’m just curious).

[carlotta]

Actually I was just curious about “community standards”

If anybody’s wondering where these scenarios come from and what I think…

1)me (except that I was a girl). Not acceptable to me w/ my kids nowadays

2)me. The city was Washington DC. Not acceptable. What were my parents thinking?

3)A post on this board from several yrs ago, except that it was a 14yr. old girl and it might have been only a mile. Not acceptable.

4)me, (the parent this time)but only once, and I was so worried, I’d never do it again. But acceptable depending on distance(short), time(brief), ability (of baby to climb out of crib), and childproofing.

5)me (as parent again), but maybe no more given the response to this thread (and never in Texas!)

[Quartz]

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

Urban, no way; rural, no problem - I was that child.

2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

Not a chance.

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

No problem.

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

Not a chance.

5) A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

No way.

[laurelann]

1. I grew up in a small town, and we left after breakfast, and were given free reign over the streets. I was within approximately a 2-mile range of my house at all times, and I don’t see the issue here. We knew not to go swimming in the lake without adult supervision, we weren’t allowed in anyone’s boat if you didn’t have your parents’ permission. Then again, we knew people, and for the most part there were houses around. We were never alone either. My feeling, is that as long as there’s a general idea of where the kid is, and you know that they’re with at least one other person, it’s ok. (And for me, it wasn’t back in the “good ol’ days,” I turned eight in 1992)
   2)Again, I’d feel more comfortable if they were with other people. If it were a group of friends going, I’d be ok. OR if it were a kid taking transportation, with which they were comfortable, to a specific place close to where the train/bus stopped. Boston I’d be ok with, New York, on the other hand (not that I know NY all that well). I can’t think of an 11-year old who would want to go to a museum alone…

2. Again, not alone. If he and his friend were walking together, in a populated neighborhood, why not?

3. I’d rather stand in the yard and watch the older one walk to the end of the block.

4. “Runs into the library to return books?” Sure. It’s not like they’re going in there to do extensive research on Boudicca. And it wouldn’t be cool if it were like 100 degrees out, let the kids out to get some air. This process couldn’t possibly take more than 5 minutes.

[Corii]

I used to do #3 all the time - but my tiny (12k pop.) hometown was quiet and bucolic. It really depends on the suburb.
1 - I did this a lot when we visited my uncle’s farm, sounds fine to me in a rural setting. Urbarn or suburban, I’d be very uncomfortable with it and it would not be acceptable to me.

2 - Aw heck no

4 & 5 - ok by me, seems like it would take 5 minutes, tops

[The_Hamster_King]

1. No.
2. No way.
3. I’m okay with this one if the neighborhood is safe and the kid is responsible.
4. No way. I don’t like the idea of being out of earshot of a baby for that long.
5. I’ve done this one. (Usually at the ATM, not the library.) But then my kids never showed any inclination to escape their car seats. If they had, I wouldn’t have done it.

[Arwin]

@carlotta

How acceptable are the following situations to you? Show your work.

1)An 8 yr. old child leaves the house after breakfast on a summer day and does not return until dusk. His parents do not know where he goes.

Not acceptable. You do have to know what the kid’s up to, with whom, and where, at least roughly. Not always, but as a general rule definitely. Before you know it your kid’s member of a street gang that harrasses old people and transsexuals, or worse. It’s part of taking a general interest. You don’t have to keep the kid on a leash, just know what’s happening so you can step in if a harmful pattern develops.

2)An 11yr. old child lives in the suburbs of a large city. She takes the bus into the city center and spends the day visiting museums alone.

Depends on the child and the city. 11 year olds can be darn independent, and females tend to mature earlier at that.

3)A 13 yr. old boy walks home alone from school play rehearsal alone in the dark after 9pm at night. He walks about a mile and a half through a safe suburb.

No problem. Same for girl, too. You have to find a good balance between being carelessness and over-protection. They both kill. Some research showed that more children drown in ponds in the UK because they aren’t exposed to water any more in a controlled environment. That is, children don’t fall into a pond under parent’s supervision anymore. A child that’s fallen into a pond and dragged out by a parent is infinitely less likely to fall into a pond by himself and drown later. This holds for many things in many ways. If a child is taught how to handle himself and stay out of danger properly, he’s as vulnerable at 13 as at 16.

4)A parent escorts a child to the bus stop a block away from home, leaving an 18 month old asleep in a crib, alone in the house.

18 month olds can be inventive little buggers, and fire is dangerous, but in a real world fire isn’t all that likely, and based on previous experience a parent should be able to determine which of the two children needs his/her presence more. Depending on age and circumstance, the child that goes to the bus stop may run a lot more risk being run over by a car than the 18 month old sleeping in its crib.

5. A parent leaves a 6 yr. old and 2 yr. old in a locked, turned off car and runs into the library to return some books.

Tricky. If they were both strapped in, perhaps. But it’s not generally a good idea. you might be kept longer in the library, the car might heat in the sun, etc. It depends on your children, I’d say, but this one sounds risky, again, depending on your circumstance.