Parents please explain - little kids in cars

In My Humble Opinion
1

I think this is more of an IMHO than a GQ, but could be wrong. Actually, I’m from Calif but lived in Asia for the past 15 years, it’s been 3 years since I had last visited the US.

My wife is Chinese from China and has only visited the US a few times for perhaps 3 months total. She also lived in Tokyo, which is an amazingly safe city, for 7 years. China bambina is 13 months old, and we spent all of July in the US introducing her to the American side of her family. this included a car camping trip with a huge posse of relatives up to the Black Hills.

One day, my wife and I drove into a small town to buy pie at the ice cream shop. China Bambina was asleep in the baby seat. It was maybe 75 degrees, and the car windows were down. My car was the only vehicle in the front of the main restaurant window, there were no other customers, and you could see the whole shop from the car and vice versa. To get in the shop would require taking losing direct eye sight with the car for a few seconds at most. When I went to pick up the sleeping China Bambina, my wife said “Are you frickin’ crazy, let her sleep. Why do you want to wake her up?”

I didn’t have a logical answer except that its been ingrained in me head that one never leaves a child unattended in the car. Any thoughts?

A second incident later in the Sacramento area. China Wife, China Bambina and I were in a giant electronics store checking out laptops and printers. A big converted warehouse store, not a lot of customers, wide isles. China Bambina had just learned how to walk 2 weeks earlier. China Bambina is not content to be held but wants to walk, and she does giggling like a maniac at her new found powers.

At one point, China Bambina was about 30 feet away careening around. I had an eye on her. A really hard looking Chicano (apologies if this isn’t the correct term any longer, and I’ve asked the question in another thread), in his 40’s, wearing a white tank top, prison tats, and a 10 year old boy with him. He said in a really loud voice “someone needs to watch their baby” and waited for someone to acknowledge him. I said something like “she’s mine, gotta an eye on her, thanks.” The strangers concern was obvious although I wasn’t sure why.

Asked my step mother later about it, and she said that there is a big concern about little children being abducted by sexual predators. THAT freaked me out completely. Is this a real concern? Is it common? I’ve been reading threads here about parents who get chastized for leaving a child unattending in the baby seat while putting the stroller in the trunk and other ancedotes that appear on the surface to be giant over-reactions (unless abductions are a real concern). Please note I’m cognizant of overheating inside a car in the sun with the windows up (two horrific negligent cases in the Bay Area the few days I was there.)

So parents, I’m hesitant to jump to wild conclusions, but can some please explain why you never leave a child unattended? Obviously, as a parent you try to minimize the risks and prevent unforseen accidents as much as possible while allowing your child to gain “safe” experience. But is this over reaction or a valid fear?

2

My speculation is that most of us have seen scores of parents who are neglectful, and just as many completely unattended children slow-roasting in cars and/or running like banshees through stores, that it’s just a natural trigger. I don’t know you personally China Guy, and you sound like a pretty reasonable fellow, but if I were to see a kid loose in a store - based on how many times that I’ve seen it before - I would assume that it was not being watched.

Bascially, all of the dolts that had kids before you paved the way for most of society to assume the worst. Hooray!

3

China, have you ever heard the phrase, “Better safe than sorry”? I think that applies here. While you may have the best intentions and have thought the situation through, there are still too many variables out there, ie: CRAZED IDIOTS out walking around in the general population. Is it inconvenient to wake up Bambina to go into restaurant–yes, but is it safer? YES. Plus, leaving your kid unattended in a car may get the police called on you in some places.

4

Holy shit, man! I hope you’re joking.

I thought the reasons for not leaving a one-year-old baby unattended were apparent to anyone old enough (or responsible enough, or whatever) to procreate. And IMHO, alone in the car, whether you have an eye on the vehicle or not, and 30 feet away in a giant store, qualify as “unattended”.

5

jane_says:

The baby alone in the car was in front of the ice cream shop, not the giant store.

China Guy, at the ice cream shop, I would have neither left the baby alone nor woken her up. You were apparently both there. I might be able to understand leaving a sleeping baby alone for a couple of minutes while within sight, but not in a situation where someone can stay with the baby while the other goes into the store.

6

The stroller thing was me. People are overreacting. Yes, children are abducted. It is not common. It is not common from parking lots in the middle of South Dakota. It is not common in crowded stores.

I did a little web searching, but didn’t find much I’d consider good data. In 1988, 4600 non family abductions were reported to police, 1/2 of these are 12 or older. In 19% of these cases the family knew the abductor. (BTW, the last census has about 60,000,000 people under 14 living in the US). People are much more concerned about abduction than their child dying in a car accident (I know what keeps me up at night, the statistically more probable car accident). The data is a little dated for my taste, but here’s a link to the site.

http://www.yellodyno.com/html/childabusestatistics.html#abductions

About the only child abductions that could be called common (and even those are fairly rare) are one parent abducting a child if the parents share (or one doesn’t have) custody.

However, when someone does loose a child, its such a tragedy, such a huge deal, that the common perception is it happens all the time.

My experience is that people love to judge your parenting skills. If your two year old still has a bottle, you are a bad parent. If your one year old isn’t walking, you are a bad parent. Don’t breastfeed, might as well be beating them with a stick. My cousin has been accosted in the grocery store for letting her daughter (2 1/2) have a tantrum over candy she isn’t allowed to have. And it is seldom easier to point to a bad parent than when their is an apparently unattended young child.

7

Well, I’m asking because I truly want to understand, and also be able to explain it to a non-American, namely China Wife. It’s a case of different cultures and perhaps levels of safety in respective countries. I’m not trying to challenge the US “common sense” view, want to know why it became “common sense.” Certainly in the 50’s and 60’s, it was socially acceptable to leave kids in the car “for just a minute.” I wasn’t a parent and haven’t lived in the US for this evolution, so I’m asking.

I guess, another part of what I’m trying to get a handle on is the US so unsafe for toddlers that you should really have them on a literal leash?

8

China Guy,
It’s not that the US is much more unsafe for toddlers than it was in the '50s and '60s. It’s a combination of different things.First off, I imagine that when there is an abduction, or a child overheats when left in a car, it gets more widespread news coverage than it would have in the past, making it appear much more common.I’ve seen news reports of children dying after being left in a car all over the country.I don’t think in the 60s an incident that happened in Texas would have been reported in NY, for example.

Second,some things probably do happen more often than they used to.I don’t think abduction is necessarily more common now than it was then, but I’m sure car theft is, and its not unheard of for a car to be stolen with a child in it.

Third, attitudes have changed in a couple of ways.When I said that with two adults I wouldn’t leave a baby alone in the car, it wasn’t so much because I fear abduction or overheating in that circumstance. It’s the more likely possibility that the baby will wake up alone, and be upset.Rembering my childhood in the sixties, I don’t think most parents were terribly concerned about such things.Not that they didn’t care about their kids, but it just wasn’t something they worried about, just like they didn’t think twice about kids riding in cars without car seats or seat belts. Also,if I rarely or never heard about children being abducted, I might not see a problem with leaving a child for a few minutes.If every time I turn around I’m seeing photos of missing children(even though I know most wren’t abducted by strangers), I wouldn’t want to risk it,even if I don’t believe its likely to happen, because how would I live with myself if it did.To use a different example, I’ve known a few people who left sleeping young children alone for half an hour while they run to the store or pick another child up from school.They generally stop when they hear about children dying or being injured in a fire in a similar situation. It’s not that a fire is more likely, its simply that the parents are now aware of the possibility,as small as it is.

9

I think the reasoning is that you always have to assume the worst that can happen. I have a very very adorable nephew, and his parents are content to let him run all over the place while they read historical notes about wherever we’re visiting while he runs around unsupervised, but the thing you have to remember is, it only takes ONE SECOND for someone to snatch your kid right out from under your nose while you’re not paying attention.

There was an episode of Oprah a few months back that featured a woman who stopped at a coffee shop because she’d just picked up her child at preschool and he said he was hungry. In the 30 seconds or so it took her to walk to the door of the coffeeshop, someone had jumped into the driver’s seat of her SUV and tried to take off with it. Her son was of course still in the carseat (“I was only going to be a minute!”) and as she tried to pull him out of the seat as the car sped away, the child was eventually dragged along the side of the car until the theif turned a corner and the boy was crushed to death right in front of the mother’s eyes.

Can you imagine having to see something like that and having to live with it the rest of your life? People ask me how I can not want to have children, and I honestly can’t imagine anyone who CAN want to have that kind of responsability.

For the record, the guy who told you “someone needs to watch their baby” was rude, but I applaud him for being rude when it mattered. I think most people (myself included) wouldn’t be bold enough to say anything.

10

Odds are pretty good that any given child is not going to be kidnapped and molested. In fact so far as I know they’re more likely to be molested by someone they know then a complete stranger. Then there’s the quetions of accidents that children can get into if they’re left unattended. I know some parents these days who don’t even like their 6 year old children to be far from the house or out of sight for very long. When I was 6 I roamed the neighborhood on my bike and played with the other kids. I’d venture to say that for the most part children are safe in this country.

Marc

11

Somebody stole my car while I went inside for 30 seconds to pick up my mail. While infant abduction is rare, car theft isn’t.

12

If god forbid you turn your back for a second and something happens to your child people can be unforgiving. You can win parent of they year but if you make one stupid mistake that leads to the death or injury of a child you are suddenly the worst piece of crap on the planet.

I understand that there are some bad parents who neglect their kids on a regular basis. But sometimes a parent makes one bad decision or has a slip of the mind that directly results or contributes to death or injury. I think it is safe to say that we’ve all made some bone headed decisions or accidents in the past.

So, China Guy, maybe that contributes to the feeling that all American kids need to be on a leash. :slight_smile: I know you didn’t mean that literally though. On a sidenote I have seen kids on leashes in the past and I always thought they were humiliating for both the kid and the adult.

Marc

13

Appreciate the comments, and yes, better safe than sorry. I’m feeling better that when I was in the US, my daughter was not likely in the cross hairs of a sexual predator.

Dangerosa - I think you’re spot on. Thanks for the link too, while dated it would suggest that parents of teenagers have even more to worry about. There are so many different areas of parenting that have no right or wrong way of doing things, that every parent can be called on the carpet for something by the majority opinion of the day.

Make it cross cultural, and then it gets even more convoluted. In Asia, infants sleep on their backs either in the parents bed or in the parents room. The incidence of SIDS is half that of the US where babies tend to sleep in their own room. The “back to sleep” campaign is a relatively new thing in the US, but has proven to reduce SIDS. However, I’ve also heard some people in the US are just disgusted by the idea of a baby sleeping in the parents bed, but more than happy to let babies “cry it out” in another room. Different viewpoint with IMHO no right or wrong answer.

Doreen - valid points all. Yes, as a parent, you read or hear about anything bad happening to another child, then you try to prevent or avoid that situation.

Voguevixen - I didn’t think the guy who said “someone needs to watch their baby” was rude at all. He was concerned and as a fellow parent I appreciated his concern. In fact, that took place 3 weeks ago, and via this post I’m still trying to figure out his concern. He didn’t get in my face, he was just concerned that there was a baby on the loose. Why he was so concerned, again I’m trying to figure out: did he personally have a bad experience or does bad things occur enough to a toddler in a pretty empty store that its a real and honest cause for concern.

Voguevixen, you’re not a parent. The quandry is do you have a toddler in a stoller or on a leash for years and years or do you allow your children to take tiny steps on their own? I think it has to change with the situation, but obviously there are always risks and kids can’t ever be 100% protected and grow up normally.

Chas.E - You make me feel better that the worry is a car being stolen and not some sick sexual predator going after my kid. I’m sure the car thieves don’t want a baby in the back seat, but may panic. Where I’ve lived (Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Taipei), cars don’t get boosted like they do in the US. I never even thought that a parked locked car in the Post Office parking lot would be at risk of being stolen for the 2 minutes it might be there, AND by extension, any child left in said car.

MGibson - I would hazard a guess that I’m 99.9% correct you aren’t a parent. If you have a kid, you might eventually agree that one stupid mistake actually does make you the worst piece of shit on the planet. 3 weeks ago in San Jose, some father went to a relatives house and watched some dumbass movie and forgot all about junior in the car. It was one of those truly horrifying articles and the child died from heatstroke. Mom was crying about how her hubby, the father, paraphrase “was such a good parent and please don’t take him away from me too.” I don’t care about how good a parent he might have been, that father was the worst piece of shit on the planet and now he has to try a live with himself.

14

If a child is in the car when the car gets stolen, it gets counted as a child abduction in the statistics…and abduction still isn’t common.

15

I, personaally, have given my son space when I felt it was safe and kept him close when not. I wouldn’t be inclined to leave him in the car, however I have at gas stations while I ran in to pay (doors locked of course)These days he wont STAND for being left alone.
As far as store go, I have always been more concerned about him getting injured or accidentally breaking something than about him getting abducted.

16

Another thought – children that small can injure themselves easily: pull something down off the shelf, etc. A child left alone in the car (even within sight) can get out of the carseat and get into mischief inside the car. (My childen have been been able to escape from their carseat but a lot of friends tell me theirs can).

I really don’t come from a perspective of fearing my children will be abducted, molested, whatever. I just feel they are safer from all kinds of hazards if I’m nearby.

17

I get the urge to leave my sleeping baby lie if I really am just going to run in to a store and run right back out, and only if I can park right next to the store front. But I don’t, because I know the one time I do that: 1) a cop will cite me for leaving her unattended, 2) my wife will drive by and yell at me for doing so, 3) some sicko will abduct her.

Things definately have changed in the US. When I was a child (6-10 years old), my mom would leave me all alone in the car when she went grocery shopping. And I stayed, just playing with the radio knobs and other controls. Also, if after an evening event we drove home and I konked out, my parents would often just leave me in the car. When I woke up, I’d walk back in the house and go to bed.

But in final answer, I never leave CRB alone in the car.

18

Well, I’m in a situation very similar to China Guy’s (wife is from the mainland and has been here for four years now), and I have to say that I can’t think of any situation where I’d leave my kid unattended in public. Not because I’m paranoid about kiddie kidnappers, but just because it seems to me it’s always safer to have the son somewhere where I can keep an eye on him. Better to wake him up and have him slightly fussy than to leave him alone and Primus-knows-what may happen…

19

I’ve left kids in the car in similar situations to China Guy - where I could see them from my position in the store. My main worry in such instances is not of any harm to the children, but rather that some cop or busybody will come along and stir up trouble.

I think society has changed in this regard. When I was kid (I don’t remember my exact age, but I moved out of that neighborhood at age 9) my sister and I and a third kid would climb on a garage roof and travel up and down the block jumping from garage roof to garage roof (this was in Brooklyn, where the garages are pretty close together). My parents knew about this (and many similar such activities) but permitted them, feeling that the experience and the freedom were worth the risk of a broken arm or leg. I can’t imagine allowing my kids to do the same (even if in theory I agree with my parents, it just feels wrong. Societal conditioning. Plus, there’d be penalties if anything did happen).

I wonder what the overall impact on kids is from all this sheltering. Will they grow up to be lesser people?

20

Hell no. I’ve used them on both of my toddlers, and trust me I love them. I don’t mind them toddling, but I do mind them toddling off to play in the chemicals section while I’m reading the ingrediants on a jar of spagetti sauce.

Also, mine climb. I prefer that split second warning that #1 son was contemplating flight rather than hearing a splat on the first floor below.

I’ve never felt bad about having the kids on harnesses. Look at it this way, better to look silly than be looking for the kid. :slight_smile: