yeah, well, speak for yourself. 
I don’t hate Satan. In fact, what I hate is banning smart posters, because I want the boards to be chock-full of intelligence, cites, and wit. But Kirkland was bright, and he was banned. Collunsbury was bright, and was banned. Satan was bright, and was banned. I like having smart posters around, but they must obey the rules…and I really don’t believe Satan would do that if we let him back. I truly wish that we could let him back and it would work out better than keeping him banned; but I honestly don’t think it would. And I regret the division that this has caused among the dopers.
Yeah, I’m pretty bummed too.
I am reminded of a certain member who (through the grace of those that are powers here) have been forgiven and maybe not forgotten this certain member’s past stupidity.
This member, granted, was never banned but was given more than this member’s fair chances to remain here on the SDMB. This member has been a dick, bitch, fuckup and other things since. This member, so I hear, also thanks the understanding of the admins and mods over said member’s past.
This member isn’t exactly upstanding nor is said member a great asset but said member remains because the Powers worked with said member to ensure said member wouldn’t repeat past dumb-ass like posts.
I think that is something to consider when Ed decided that Satan’s return would not be feasible. Everyone changes, even in a month.
I am that “said member.” I got my shit together, well kinda, and while I am not exactly a great resource for knowledge, strength or anything else, I was given more than I probably deserved.
There is proof that if you are sincere and I know Brian is, that people can change.
Honestly though, if it hadn’t been for a lot of the hiccups and the straight up calls on me to pull my attention to the forefront (both by mods and by members) about what the heck I was doing, I would have continued in the realm I was going, and that was self destruction. I am completely and utterly serious. I was suicidal two years before my first meltdown here and people gave me shit, some supported me, others didn’t understand.
With that said. Satan is not the evil his name suggests. He may have had a rough spot (hardly where I was with my bullshit threads) but I do think that he is acceptable for these boards. I have seen nothing but honesty and truth from him.
If I can, after all the grief I put the mods/admins through can do a 180, then I think Brian has certainly done that and more than I have.
I need to take a class in Writing Comprehension 101, er something like that.
Good Fucking Word.
Anyhow you get the gist of it.
techchick68
You have said my posts in this thread were “hardly fair.” I doubt that you have any leg to stand on with this, but perhaps you would be so kind as to point out where I have been unfair. Quotations in context would be nice.
Here are some examples to guide you.
Well, you obviously were unable to understand the analogy. In particular, you seem to have read “parole board” as “court of law” You have also seem to have imagined that the focus of the analogy was on the nature of the crime/criminal. It was not. The issue being addressed was the propriety of considering a particular piece of evidence (not the quality of that evidence, despite your red herring about real vs. subjective evidence.)
Thankfully, stoid reads with more comprehension than you do, since it was specifically to her that the analogy was addressed.
Being banned.
Not being reinstated after being banned.
One of these things is not like the other. Why should the appropriateness of each be determined by teh same rules?
Yes, reflecting attitudes that had lingered for years, apparently.
I have studiously avoided doing anything more than stating my opinion and listing some of the elements which went into my consideration. I have explicitely stated that I do not wish to delve further into the details because it would be unfair to Brian.
That isn’t good enough for you. Apparently you think that only people who agree with your evaluation should be allowed to present their views.
Apparently, we shall each have to live with the shocking disappointments of reality.
The analogy specifically addressed the issue of what evidence should be considered in making a decision. That you failed to recognize the point does not imply that the point was off topic.
It made sense to me. It made sense to stoid. Here’s a hint for next time: when someone asks a question immediately after presenting an analogy, it is usually a clue as to the relationship the analogy is supposed to illuminate. In this case, I did not ask a question about the severity of the crime, the reliability of the evidence, the nature of the law, or the characteristics of a “jury”. I asked whether considering a piece of evidence when making an evaluation was unjust.
I would apologize for posting something that was too complex for you to understand, but then I’d just have to go start a LiveJournal and bitch about your pathetic lack of reading comprehension.
You have not pointed out any errors. You have pointed out that what I characterized as an extreme example which should not be taken as equating Brian with a rapist was an extreme example, and that I should not equate Brian with a rapist.
How proud your parents must be.
stoid
I always do.
Actually they are. I am quite the charming and intelligent person if you actually knew me.
As for your other comments, no, your analogy was rude and I will stick with that. Knowing what certain people read, and not read kindly, around here they will dismiss the “extreme” analogy concept and think he’s something he’s not. Careful wording in this manner is appropriate, not what you posted. Pardon me for finding offense in it despite your disclaimer. While this is the SDMB, many aren’t as bright or as quick to make a justified opinion as you may give them credit for. Okay?
I completely understood your analogy, does that mean I should automatically agree with it, because you stated it as you did? I am not stupid, I understood you loud and clear.
I never said it was off topic but maybe more to the point, more off color. Got it?
A parole board? So that’s what this is about? Brian facing a parole board? I hardly think so. This is the SDMB, there are plenty of people yeahing and naying the decision but it’s hardly a decision that will hurt or keep safe people. Give me a break.
People are more than welcome to disagree with what I have to say. What I don’t agree with is your lame-ass analogy. Pardon me for having an opinion. I find it rude and crude. It has NOTHING to do with what has transpired here.
Oh and you are hardly complex. I guess if you want to believe that, that’s your concern not mine.
Spiritus
Don’t get married to your metaphor, just supply another, or, if you will, allow me.
I give parties once a month. Every month, I have my friends over for beer, debate, and general intellectual folderol. I don’t send out invitations, but all my friends know that my party is open to all my friends. It’s a wild time, and, as drunk intellectuals will, now and then I have fights break out. Sometimes it’s just yelling and cursing. What the heck, I don’t mind that. Once and a while, it gets beyond yelling and cursing.
I had to make a rule. The rule is, “You hit someone, you leave, now.” Well, a few years go by, and two or three of my most boisterous friends have already had to leave once. I had to make a new rule. “You get tossed out twice, you don’t come back.”
Now, I have tossed Bill out twice before the second rule was made. I talk it over with Bill, and decide to let him come back, and I let him know, if he even looks to me like he is gonna hit someone, I bounce his ass immediately, and permanently. Special rule for Bill.
OK, a few months go by, and Frank gets his second toss, and is out for good. Then comes Ed, and I got two friends that cannot come to the Yellathons anymore. I hate that. But I can’t have fights. I won’t tolerate it. OK So, the day comes, Bill is yelling vile things at another friend, and he balls his hand into a fist, and holds it up in front of him. “Bill, you’re gone.”
More months go by. Two more friends get the toss, and it’s starting to be a regular thing. Everyone asks me if Ed can please come back. He’s been in rehab, and he doesn’t dring anymore, please let him come again. OK, I let him come. He’s as good as gold for three months, and then pushes someone. Push ain’t hit he says. Sorry Ed, your gone.
Now it comes. Bill wants to come back. He has been miserable about being gone, he really wants to be a part of the Yellathon, and he is very sorry about the troubles he has caused. I tell him I am not really sure it’s a good idea to let him come back. He points out that Ed came back. I say I will think about it for a while. He says OK. He tells me he understands that I am in a tough spot.
The next day, I am in town, and I over hear two other friends discussing Bill. They say word to the effect that Bill thinks that I am being an asshole on a power trip. Then they see me, and shut up. Finally one of them fesses up that Bill has been telling everyone he is “working on me” but that I am being a dick about it all.
Now, I still have to decide whether to invite Bill to my parties. I don’t approve of eavesdropping. But I also know that our mutual friend is unlikely to be lying. Bill, on the other hand has told me to my face before that I am a dick. Now he says that he doesn’t feel that way. He also says that he won’t hit anyone anymore.
You know what? I don’t believe him. And I don’t feel that the fact that I eavesdropped changes the likelihood that I am right about Bill. So, I am not inviting him back. Everyone will have to decide for themselves if I am a dick. I have to make the decision, and I have.
By the way, I happen to thing the Brian would try very hard to remain a good poster. I even think it is likely that he could control his emotions enough to avoid being a Board Rules Jerk. But it doesn’t matter, I am not the one making this decision.
Tris.
Wow, tris, what’s up with your friends??? Are you hanging with a buncha 'roidheads? :eek:
I have to say that were this an issue in my world, it would be ** once ** and you’re out.
Stoid: Metaphor 
That’s it. Triskadecamus, from now on, is coming down (up? from the side?) to host the Kansas City/Topeka Dopefests. I mean, what kind of party is it where no one gets tossed?
Some random thoughts:
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I agree that Satan’s LJ, not having access restricted to a ‘buddy list’, was germane to this SD admin decision. Even if it had been so restricted, I think it’s asking a bit much of human beings involved in such a decision to shut such a relevant LJ post out of their minds when making that decision.
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Given that Satan knew what he’d said there to begin with, his best bet would have been to wait another six or eight months before applying for reinstatement. If his LJ rants against SD mods and policies had been old news when he asked to be reinstated, he’d have had a much better argument.
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But given that such rants were recent, I think that in the shoes of Gaudere and Arnold and all, I’d be thinking, “Well, he didn’t change much in the 21 months between March 2001 and December 2002; why should we believe he’s had a big change just in the past month?” At the very least, I’d want a bit more water under the bridge to know such a change was real.
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While I’m with Stoid on the relatively low risks of reinstating Satan, I can see why the SD doesn’t want to do that now.
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Finally, I think threads like this, are, in balance, good for the community. IMHO, it’s really better to be able to hash things like this out in public, even though there are some bruised feelings, than to feel it’s not allowed to discuss or question board decisions.
The reality is, we get past these things and go on. And hell, nobody has to open these threads if they don’t want to be affected by them. I really don’t remember much of the brouhaha from when Satan was banned, because I mostly stayed out of that one.
I think that if MrC leaves on account of this, it will be a shame (and I’ll also think he’s extremely misguided in doing so, based on his stated reason), but posters of quality leave all the time. Where’s Montfort gone to? Where’s Eve these days?
You can’t stop people from leaving, for good reasons or ridiculous ones.
But overall: we’ve argued it out, the relevant facts are on the table, and in another coupla days, this thread will start sinking down the page. Better that than us all wondering, “Why is Satan still banned?” Now we know.
Thanks, Arnold, Gaudere, and TVeb, for being open with your thoughts here. It’s made a big difference, at least to me.
First, I am amazed this thread is still going.
Second, I agree with Haj. He’s banned, and a jerk (IMHO). Let it go.
Well, y’know, if you’re going to bump a thread to the top just to say “let it go,” after (finally) nobody had posted to it for a couple hours, it isn’t gonna drop very far. Really.
Ah crap, your right. Sorry.
I find it odd that people who registered after Satan, and therefore have had no interaction with him through these boards, can have such strong opinions.
I know him only through LJ and personal meetings. I think he’s a great guy. I wasn’t around for his supposed jerkiness so I should not voice an opinion on his banning and not being let back. It seems to me, because of how I know him, that he’s sincere. I’m proud to number him among my friends, and will continue to do so whether he is allowed back here or not.
I would not presume to say why Montfort has retired from the SDMB, but he is alive and well and receiving mail. 
Well there some of us lurked long before we formally registered and stood in mute witness to events as they unfolded :). Myself, I reach back pre-Melingate, which you would never know from my registartion date.
Not that I personally have a strong opinion ( I do have an opinion, but it isn’t a particularly polarized one ) on this situation one way or another. Just I can see how people that didn’t specifically post with him, could.
- Tamerlane
…there are some of us that…
- Tamerlane