“I have to admit I’d like the drag queens and trannies to stop being the center of attention for a while just because they ARE reducing the visibility of other gay men. Admit it, when America thinks ‘gay,’ it thinks of screaming, in-your-face men in cocktail dresses lipsyncing to Madonna tunes.”
—Anyone here like to address the fact that some—not all—gay men can be very “transphobic” and feel called upon to ridicule the transgendered to make themselves feel more “normal?” Kinda like the hatred some insecure light-skinned blacks can have toward dark-skinned blacks? “We may be gay, but at least we’re not as weird as those fucking drag queens and trannies!” I’ve noticed the gay male writers of “Sex and the City” and “Will and Grace” tiptoe around homophobia, but are perfectly happy to make vicious anti-transgender jokes . . .
A. What’s a genderQueer?
B. Young gay folk have it easy. Coming out today is nothing compare to coming out in the late 70’s in the rural South, like me. You think gay teens think about suicide now? Think about an era when there were no gay youth centers, no gay youth helplines, no support at all. The entire gay culture panders to young gay men, so get over yourself.
If you want to talk about marginalized, think about elderly gays and lesbians. They are often alone in the world, they are ostracized by other gay people, and gay men and lesbians are often badly treated in nursing homes. Who speaks for them?
C. Hey, I’m laid off and getting rapidly poor, do I qualify as oppressed?
Don’t look at me. I just want the drag queens and trannies to stop hogging the spotlight. I have a great deal of sympathy for transgendered people, who come in for a hell of a lot of abuse.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think goboy’s point is that gays are like everyone else-there’s no “norm” or rule to follow, so it’s stupid to think every gay person is a flamer, even though some are, some aren’t.
It would be like assuming every lesbian is a butch manly woman who could beat up your dad, or something like that.
Exactly, Guinastasia! I am tired of all gay men being portrayed as flaming, drug-using, promiscuous queers.
That doesn’t mean I want Matt and company to be invisible; it’s not either/or. I just want America to see that gay men can do home repair and play football as well as sing show tunes and accessorize.
I don’t want to imply that all—or even most—gays do this. But I stopped watching “Sex and the City” and “Will and Grace,” for instance, because of the spectacle of gay writers trying to get laffs from straight audiences by saying cruel, vicious things about the transgendered. Left a bad taste in my mouth. But I’m sure it’s not typical. At least, I hope it’s not.
It’s more usual for insecure dark-skinned blacks to be atagonistic toward light-skinned blacks because supposedly “light-skinned blacks think they’re better because they have good hair and light skin.”
Oh, yes. It’s especially bullshit when you consider that I never made any such statement in this thread, and I’ll enjoy watching you try and find it.
I’m 19, and every single one of my young gay friends has been suicidal several times while they were coming out, without exception. You were saying?
Hmm. Well, I must say I’ve never felt myself particularly pandered to. Particularly not as a young femme gay man!!
Thanks for the reminder. I’ll add them to the list. I’m sorry I forgot. (no sarcasm)
Alienating the bourgeoisie has nothing to do with it. There are more important fights than gay marriage and gays in the military; things that affect many more Queers with greater immediacy and urgence than those.
No, that’s just who most horny guys FANTASIZE about when they think of lesbians.
I think too that perhaps not all gay characters on tv should be characatchures (I KNOW I butchered that spelling, mmmkay?) to poke fun at. I mean, there are straight people who are, what would you say-outside the norm? Like dressing a certain way, or something like that. That doesn’t mean all straight people dress one way or another. The same holds true for gays.
(BTW, I saw the commercial where John Goodman made the “big girl” comment-I assumed he was being sarcastic, but I didn’t see the show.)
If you want to go to lesbian relationships, Willow and Tara on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Kim and Kerry on ER both have extremely well-done relationships.
OK, you never said it word for word, but it comes across in your tone. I have repeatedly said I don’t want you to be invisible–how many times how do I have to say it? I just want there to be other images of gay men besides drag queens and witty, effeminate men. Right now I’m flipping through cable and Flawless is on–yet anothermovie featuring a tragic drag queen. Holiday Heart The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert Hedwig and the Angry Inch To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar Torch Song Trilogy
Not all gay men wear drag! Is that too hard a concept for you to grasp, Matt? I don’t want the drag queens to vanish, but I would like you to recognize that it is legitimate for me to want to see more movies like The Broken Hearts Club or Big Eden. I am not a drag queen, I don’t go clubbing, I don’t do drugs, but I do like sports, I know how to use tools, and I drink beer. Where is my image in the movies or TV?
I’m sorry that your gay friends have been suicidal. That truly stinks, especially in this day and age. What really infuriates me though is you are always intelligent and reasonable, which makes it hard to argue with you.
Still, I wish I could take you in a time machine to show you what life was like for my generation, and maybe you’d understand, especially since you have no first-hand knowledge of how scary life was in the early 80’s.
Andygirl excellent point about Tara/Willow.I haven’t been watching ER, so I can’t comment on the storyline there. Lesbians have great coverage in the media. I wish we had a gay male Xena! (Hercules and Iolaus don’t count.)
goboy what makes you think that normal people will ever be in the spotlight? To get attention you actually have to try to get it. For them to reduce their visibility would not automatically increase yours. Theres no reason it would. They visible because they are. You aren’t because you don’t have to be.
Who said being transgendered isn’t normal? It’s just one part of the human spectrum. I just want Matt to acknowledge that it’s legitimate to want to see gay men on screen who are like me, not flamboyant. I couldn’t be witty or camp if I tried.
Yikes, I just got scolded by Philp Seymour Hoffman!
In a scene in Flawless, which I’m watching on Cinemax2West (God Bless Digital Cable), Log Cabin Republicans are suggesting to the drag queens that they should not use floats but march on foot, to which one DQ shouts, “You just think we can’t march in heels!”
Hoffman says something like, “You’re ashamed of us, but we’re not ashamed of you. As long as you go down on your Republican knees and suck cock, you’re our sisters, and we love you. Now fuck off!”
Which is the point I was trying to make. I fall in the spectrum between you and matt. Some men have seen me as too butch, others as too femme. I’m me. I’m not aspiring to a stereotype, and I am not being anything others than I am.
I don’t expect you to be other than you are. Don’t expect me to be other than I am and say that I should be like you. But, I think you understand that now.
my god people! have you thought what you’re actually asking the tv companies to do?
every tv show would have a cast of thousands…
in Britain i think it’s done a bit better.
a DQ and a transgendered person in the docusoap Paddinton Green.
Hayley in Corrie who is transgendered …and played by a woman…who is pregnant…which is giving the scriptwriters problems.
Tony and Tiffany’s brother, and a mixed-race lesbian couple a few years ago, in Eastenders.
Zoe the lesbian veterinarian in Emmerdale…admittedly, she was in a relationship with a truck driver called Frankie…
the original Queer as Folk- gays and lesbians a-plenty and (i think) Vince is a “normal” straight-acting gay guy, he’s a supermarket manager…and a Doctor Who fan.
as opposed to Stuart who is a bit more of a stereotype.
and the “fabulous” sections of the gay community have Metrosexuality. which was dire, but that’s beside the point…they were all very pretty.
there are some more, but those are the ones that spring to mind.
“Who said being transgendered isn’t normal? It’s just one part of the human spectrum. I just want Matt to acknowledge that it’s legitimate to want to see gay men on screen who are like me, not flamboyant. I couldn’t be witty or camp if I tried.”
—None of my transgendered friends are flamboyant or camp (though they ARE witty, or they wouldn’t be my friends). One is a factory worker; another is a research chemist; another is a world-reknowned travel writer. All very low-key and not at ALL like the flaming-queen-hooker-trannies seen on TV or the movies. You think GAYS have a bad public image . . .
