Under what circumstances, if any, would you let your child become vegetarian?

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=CairoCarol]
My WAG? CairoSpouse doesn’t know how to cook a healthy, well-rounded vegetarian meal (or perhaps not enough different meals to sustain appropriate variety over a couple weeks’ time) and so he thinks it is too much of a pain in the butt. Which is not completely irrational; I don’t think kids should be allowed to establish any set of principles to live by that they please, if it is going to be unreasonably disruptive for everyone else in the household. I do think Dad should be able to manage for a couple of weeks, however.
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Teaching opportunity! “I’m going out of town for two weeks. Dad won’t cook vegetarian for you. How do you want to see yourself through that?”

It’s a chance for your son to learn that if he wants to embrace an alternative diet: (a) he’s going to have to take primary responsibility for it, and (b) it’s going to take some planning. With this opportunity, you can work with him on:

  1. Meal planning: With him, do some meal planning for the time you’ll be gone.

  2. Cooking: Teach him to make one simple staple meal himself (lile the veggie quesadilla), and pick out something else, like a veggie lasagne or casserole, that you can cook with him before you go. Cook it, cut it up into single portions, and freeze it. Then he can take a portion out in the morning to thaw and microwave it for dinner, or make the quesadilla, or nosh out of the fridge.

  3. Shopping: Take him with you to pick out the stuff he needs for the make-himself entree and the casserole, as well as the carrots, yogurt, etc.

  4. Personal responsibility: Make sure he understands that now you’ve given him the tools to take care of his own nutrition in a vegetarian way, and it’s your expectation he’ll do so. If you come home to find the whole casserole and quesadilla makings still there because he’s lived off Ritz crackers and soda the whole time, the next time he’ll be eating meat with Dad.

Go on your trip, secure in the knowledge he’s not going to drop dead of malnutrition in two weeks anyhow. :slight_smile:

42

[QUOTE=nashiitashii]
I happen to live across the street from a cattle farm, and the animals are well cared for and docile. They hang out in the pasture, eat grass, poop, socialize, and occasionally hop the fence to check out our neighborhood. Not one of them is suffering from living on a pasture, and most of them are meat cattle; I’m sure they eventually go off to the slaughterhouse, but they do tend to stick around for quite a while beforehand. Most of the cows I’ve seen in pasture have not disappeared in the year that I’ve lived near them, and those who have were all full-grown adults when I first moved here. They’re not the only cattle farm in the area, and they’re certainly not unique in their practices in this region.
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In cattle farming, in the US at least, it’s the finishing before slaughter that is inhumane. The cattle are moved from their pastures to huge feed lots to fatten up before slaughter.

43

The only circumstances I would have let my kids become vegetarians was if they did all the cooking.

I can cook a couple of vegetarian things but I don’t like it (hate cooking in general, although I’m good at it) and I don’t like to eat it.

I asked them not to marry vegetarians, too. But I didn’t have to; they consider meat-eating women to be way more desirable than vegetarians, although rare. Or at least, rare in high school and college.

44

Vegetarianism, for me, is one of those things that you can choose, as **Dinsdale **says, once you’re capable of being responsible for your own meals - either in my house or in your own. Mostly, this is because I spent 5 years cooking dual meals for my vegetarian husband, and I’m over it. (He’s omnivorous now.) It was a pain in the ass.

I cannot thrive on a vegetarian diet. It makes me stabby, brings back migraines and depression and puts weight on me like no one’s business. Too much soy (vegetarian or not) also screws up my menstrual cycles. So I’m not willing to go veg along with my kid. My husband, honestly, would be fine either way - but he doesn’t cook. Meals with him “cooking” consist of Boca chicken sandwiches with a slice of cheese melted on top and some salsa to dip it in. I have no problem with it if my kid is willing to do his own cooking, though. I’d still watch him for the health effects, however, and be ready to veto it if it didn’t go well for him medically.

My goddaughters both went vegetarian about 2 years ago. One of them (the diabetic, actually) thrives on it - she’s gained weight (this is a good thing for her), her breasts finally grew and her cycles starting coming more regularly, her moods have stabilized and she’s just generally glowy. Her sister didn’t fare so well - she lost weight she didn’t need to, her menstrual cycles started coming every two weeks with terrible cramping and clotting, and she started getting sick every couple of weeks. After a year of that, she finally declared herself an omnivore again, and a single month of omnivorous eating had her back to her old self. So I would keep a close eye on any child of mine choosing to go veg - some people do well on it, others, not so much.

But for you and your son, it sounds like a good option to try, and you certainly seem to have the knowledge base you need to teach him good healthy vegetarianism (as opposed to the “french fry and grilled cheese” vegetarianism). I think teaching him to cook and having him fend for himself (or cook for Dad) while you’re away is a fine idea.

45

[QUOTE=Szlater]
In cattle farming, in the US at least, it’s the finishing before slaughter that is inhumane. The cattle are moved from their pastures to huge feed lots to fatten up before slaughter.
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Most of the time. However, there is “grass finished” beef and beef taken directly from field to slaughter. I have flyers from a few Twin Cities farms on my desk right now that do just that.

Now, drive yourself down to Kroger and buy whatever is on special and chances on the animal it came from did not live a happy life. You have to know where your meat came from if you are going to care about the ethics of eating animals.

46

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Honestly on the nutrition front - I’m not sure a kid who is a vegetarian is going to get a worse diet than 80% of kids out there. I’d rather have a vegetarian than one that gets the majority of their food from a fast food window. Or one that is so picky it eats nothing but Skippy peanut butter on Wonderbread with Smuckers HFCS grape jelly.

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Exactly. I see no problem in letting a kid try a vegetarian diet; heck, lots of kids are raised from birth as vegetarians. As long he is getting variety and it’s not a huge inconvenience, who cares? My son is largely vegetarian and he’s two. His pediatrician is absolutely fine with it and strongly encouraged us NOT to push the meat if he doesn’t want it. I think it was noted earlier, but especially for kids, when you force them to eat something they dislike, there’s a potential for disordered eating later on. Plus, trying to force a child to eat something can turn the dinner table into a battlefield, which isn’t a good thing for anyone. You don’t want to be a line-item cook, so you have to draw the line somewhere, but it’s also important to respect your diners’ wishes.

For my kid, his meat issues are largely related to texture and chewability. Chicken is his favorite meat because he still doesn’t have molars and a tender roast chicken is easy to chew. He likes the taste of beef, but not the texture (takes too long to chew, so he inevitably spits it out), and pork is just ok. He’ll eat beans, though, and cheese and yogurt, and has no anemia issues.

Given that my husband and I eat meat about three times a week for dinner, this fits in easily with our lifestyle.

47

The phrasing in the OP struck me as rather odd, along the lines of ‘under what circumstances would you let your child like Indian food’, or ‘under what circumstances would you let your child like French food’. It’s just a cuisine, after all.

After looking through the thread, obviously there are issues of proper nutrition and who prepares what, but that’s the same as with any change of cuisine, really.

48

I think it’d probably lead to an overall healthier diet. A vegetarian kid put conscious thoughts into her eating habits, and often that leads to a greater variety of healthier foods.

Is it possible to eat an unhealthy vegetarian diet? Of course. You can eat all cheetos and soda. Or nothing but pizza. But if you eat a reasonable variety of foods you shouldn’t have to do anything special to get the nutrition you need. There are no magic nutrients in meat, just a concentration of same nutrients you get everywhere else. And since most of us do have access to a varied and abundant diet, it’d take a real effort to end up with a deficient diet.

I’d wager that it’s far more likely for a meat eating kid to eat a poor diet than a vegetarian. Protein isn’t a problem for most people with access to enough food. Fruits and vegetables is. Anyway, it amazes me that so many people are willing to post the “folk wisdom” about this subject, when there are plenty of facts out there.

49

[QUOTE=Jodi]
Teaching opportunity! “I’m going out of town for two weeks. Dad won’t cook vegetarian for you. How do you want to see yourself through that?”

It’s a chance for your son to learn that if he wants to embrace an alternative diet: (a) he’s going to have to take primary responsibility for it, and (b) it’s going to take some planning.
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Agreed.

If Joph Jr (age 9) wanted to take up the veggie lifestyle, it’d come with two stipulations. First, we’d need to consult a doctor. Not only for my education but so Joph Jr can hear that changing his diet means being more observant about what he eats and how to do it correctly. Secondly, he’d be expected to take a more active role in meal preperation, especially since the rest of us aren’t forgoing meat. He wouldn’t be expected to cook entire meals or spend every night from 5:30-6:00 at the kitchen counter but if he’s adding to the cooking burden by needing additional stuff then he can help prepare that additional stuff as often as not.

I did the vegetarian thing in college for a few years so I know what it’s like to frown at the menu when the family decides they need to stop at a hotdog stand for lunch and things like that. I don’t think that telling the kid “Well, dinner’s burders so I guess you’re screwed” is the way to go. But this is a good chance to learn that having a strong conviction in something can be noble but isn’t always fun.

50

I know a married couple where she’s vegetarian, and he isn’t. Their most frequent meal is pizza with meat on one side and stuff she likes on the other. That would be a good meal for Dad and son, too.

I’m not sure how common take-out pizza is in Indonesia, but it’s very easy to make. PM me if you want a recipe for the crust. Same crust makes focaccia/bruschetta.

You are so fortunate to live in Indonesia; I would dearly love to see some live Gamelan!

FWIW, I was a vegetarian for a few months at 16. What did me in? I had never had authentic barbecue before!

51

[QUOTE=Sage Rat]
I’d be concerned about meeting the nourishment needs of a child. If you look up a “vegetarian diet” on the internet or something, I’d be decently sure that it’s writing about a diet for adults.
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I’m certainly no vegetarian myself, but I find it odd that so many people in this country think it’s a grave issue that must be studied. There are millions of children growing up vegetarian in India and other countries. The vegetarians are no worse off than the omnivores. Not to mention the thousands of offspring of Indian vegetarians who were born in the United States and have managed to survive just fine.

They key of course is always a balanced diet. Vegetarians in India take in a lot of dairy products and legumes, and in combination with everything else, makes up a perfectly healthy diet.

Now, veganism or raw-foodism – those are things that might not be so easy to do.

52

[QUOTE=acsenray]
There are millions of children growing up vegetarian in India and other countries.
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What’s the infant and child mortality rate like in India?

Also, how does the average Indian’s health compare at 40 or 50 with the average westerner at 40 or 50?

The effects of improved childhood nutrition in the west are plain to see in the post-WWII period.

That’s not to say you can’t be healthy as a veggie child, I just don’t think we should be hastilly pointing towards India as a shining example of child nutrition and the lack of long-term effects.

53

My son is semi-vegetarian. At a very young age (five ish? He’s nearly 12 now) he told me that he couldn’t stomach eating animals that “could think”. He didn’t mind eating chicken or fish but the higher level animals, particularly pig, really bothered him.

These days he is nearly completely vegetarian though he will eat minced meat in small amounts (it can’t think any more??!)

I think he has a right to not eat stuff but I don’t bend over backwards for him. For example, because he’s not allergic to meat, I’ll cook a curry or stew and fish the meat out of his portion. He said he doesn’t mind this. Obviously for his allergies he gets a whole different menu… (Except it’s generally easier for us to not eat that stuff either, and to eat it when he’s not home if we really want it - I hate being a short order cook!)

54

As the parent of a six-year old I’m struggling with the question of how “letting” (or not letting) him be vegetarian would work. I can understand choosing to adapt to his decision or not: whether to provided non-meat meals, nutritious alternatives, etc… it’s just the “let” bit I can’t quite understand. What are those who are saying they wouldn’t let their children do this planning (hypothetically) to do?

Not offer alternatives? Punish the children if they don’t eat their meat? (per Pink Floyd: “If you don’t eat your meat you can’t have any pudding? How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?”) :slight_smile: (Or time outs or loss of privileges, or grounding, or whatever). Hold them down and force-feed them like you were making foie gras? :eek:

I’m just not sure how this would work.

55

He objects to killing animals period. In the interests of not writing an overly verbose post I have not shared the numerous anecdotes about his affection for animals, but they are legion. The kid has been known to burst into tears because an ant got crushed.

Hah, that’s funny. My son did decide to be vegetarian a few years ago, but he lasted until the next time his Dad suggested a trip to McDonald’s. Now that he is older, he has more willpower.

Excellent point, and I hadn’t thought of that yet. Good heavens, I will NOT allow my son to expect that his hosts would change their cooking around for him. We need to have a talk. I’ll suggest he eat meat when at someone’s house in order to be polite, but if he’s adamant that he won’t do that (which is kind of what I expect) we’ll talk about polite ways to avoid the meat.

One theme that a number of people have raised is that cooking for a vegetarian in a non-vegetarian household is potentially a pain. If we were in that situation, I’d insist that CairoSon either not be vegetarian, or take responsibility for preparing his own nutritious meals without adding to the hassles of anyone else. However, we frequently eat vegetarian anyway, and I love to cook and am always looking for an excuse to make something more. In fact, a standing joke in our house is that I can’t wait until CairoSon hits the adolescent boy devour-food-constantly stage. He is under orders to have a lot of hungry friends and bring them all over to our house so I can cook large quantities of food and have it consumed immediately. So for me a dietary change in the household is not a problem, rather a welcome challenge and opportunity.

56

Oops, missed this earlier –

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Well, YMMV, but CairoSon is quite obedient. We tell him to eat string beans, he eats string beans. (Not without a lot of grimacing and chugging milk to help get it down, but he does it.) So if we insisted he eat meat, he’d eat it and he wouldn’t talk back. I’m sure he’d feel resentful, but he’d behave. (Talk to me again when he hits adolescence and we’ll see what my answer is.)

57

[QUOTE=Apollyon]
As the parent of a six-year old I’m struggling with the question of how “letting” (or not letting) him be vegetarian would work.
[/QUOTE]

I mostly mean it in the sense of not being a short order cook. I’ll make what I’m planning to make (and I do make a lot of mental and physical notes about what people like and don’t like for future changes, I’m not entirely heartless) and he can pick out whatever he doesn’t like or go make himself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, a can of soup or some other vaguely healthy alternative or go hungry, his choice.

I’ve never been one to force my kids to eat anything, but I’m not jumping through a lot of hoops for non-medical pickiness, either. I suppose if the kid was ready to throw out his leather basketball shoes and favorite leather coat and was really coming at it from a well though out moral standpoint, I might be a bit more persuaded - but he’s still got to take on the greater part of the burden himself. His choice, his responsibility.

A few weeks ago, my daughter (3) put together that the “duck” in the oven is “duck, the amimal”. Just last night, she realized that her tasty pork chop is pig. She’s entirely fine with it, after I explained that some animals eat only plants and some only other animals and some eat other animals *and *plants, and humans are that last kind. Reading her bedtime book, she pointed to the pig and said, “Yummy pig!” and laughed and laughed. While she might become a vegetarian some day, I really don’t anticipate it being an issue until she’s old enough to fend for herself occasionally for dinner.

58

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Oh come now, it is disingenuous in the extreme to suggest that differing mortality rates in the US and India can be attributed to vegetarian vs. non-vegetarian diets (although to be fair to Szlater, the comment s/he is responding to sets up that comparison).

For one thing, India is hardly a monolithically vegetarian country. For another, you have to control for access to clean water, availability of adequate, uncontaminated food, vaccination rates, medical care, and a host of other factors before you can start saying that differences in mortality/overall health are due to differences in meat intake. A far better comparison would be the health between vegetarian Indians born and raised in the US and meat-eating US citizens (as acsenray initially proposed).

59

[QUOTE=Szlater]
What’s the infant and child mortality rate like in India?

Also, how does the average Indian’s health compare at 40 or 50 with the average westerner at 40 or 50?

The effects of improved childhood nutrition in the west are plain to see in the post-WWII period.

That’s not to say you can’t be healthy as a veggie child, I just don’t think we should be hastilly pointing towards India as a shining example of child nutrition and the lack of long-term effects.
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Adjusted for socioeconomic factors - they are a HELL of a lot healthier. Less cancer. Less heart disease. Less diabetes.

The poor in India suffer. The variable at work isn’t “do they eat meat.”

60

Our daughter at age 10 decided she was going to be a Vegetarian after visting a PITA site. She also decided she was going to change her cats diet and litter—not a wise decision to say the least! The story of that little escapade is worth a thread of its own.

But my wife was VERY supportive of her and I was much like your husband. Lukewarm would describe my enthusiasm. However being a good Dad and wanting to be supportive I agreed to it and we embarked on this Veggie mission. So we did the gardenburger thing, and since we already eat a very healthly diet of fruits and veggies anyways, it wasn’t a huge deal. We told her she had to do dairy for one of her protiens.

But I enjoy meat and so does my wife (although she was a vegetarian for many years in college and frankly could easily become one again). My daughters best friend also started that same day–she lasted the day until she got home and they were having hamburgers! :slight_smile:

However my daughter LOVES seafood and barbeque–so I figured one of those two meats would be her downfall. But my daughter did pretty well for about a month, and she helped prepare her meals for the most part. What she found though is that she enjoyed ‘some’ vegetarians dishes, but would often resort to the junk food aspect of vegetarians choices.

And sure enough on a visit to her grandparents she called and said she had shrimp! When she came back we went to a baseball game and she stated she was eating meat once a week, but we soon found that once a week seemed to happen just about everyday! :wink:

But to this day she is a good eater, wide variety of food, loves seafood, eats meat, but isn’t over the top for the most part. Is a good salad and veggie eater, adores fruit. She and my wife will often eat a vegetarian dish, whereas it isn’t a big draw for me personally.

So we encourage her as much as she wants and she may once again go down that route. She now understands the committment needed and that she would be responsible for her own food, etc. So now at age 13 that isn’t something she wants to do.

I survived the experience and frankly learned a lot myself. The cat survived as well (but just barely!) and life goes on.

Good luck and good luck to your husband. Tell him to hang in there and things will eventually work themselves out one way or the other. I agree 100% with people here who say that it is a great learning experience for a 10 year old–it certainly was with our kid!