You should start that cat litter thread, Hakuna Matata. I’m sure it would attract many readers.
An update: this morning I pulled out a selection of vegetarian cookbooks (Moosewood, Diet for a Small Planet, a vegetarian Indian cookbook, etc.) and told CairoSon to pick some recipes he wanted to try cooking/eating. He decided he’d pick two from each cookbook, and carefully wrote down the cookbook titles and page numbers of his selections. I like his choices - lots of beans, whole grains, spices, and vegetables. It remains to be seen how well he will like the actual dishes, but it will be an excellent learning experience.
While my foie gras comment was pure hyperbole my little lad has stoically endured “you can’t have X unless you eat Y first”, timeouts, and loss of TV/computer privileges in order to resist eating things he has decided he will not consume, and while I could continue to press the issue there is (I find) an emotional limit when dealing with a child as stubborn as oneself (and taking into account Mrs. Apollyon’s on-going postnatal depression).
After some emotional turmoil we settled on a softer approach of offering new things and encouraging him, but backing off without too much pressure (can always try again in a few months). A common occurrence is after some cajoling he’ll try “just one bite” of a new foodstuff and then declare that he really likes it. (Very “Green Eggs & Ham” – one of his favourite books)
He can also be terribly surprising: a couple of years back he got sick (nothing to do with food) and we managed to get him eat a banana (something he liked and we figured would be good for him) which he promptly regurgitated. After that he got it into his head that bananas made him sick and wouldn’t touch one. Just recently he was looking for a snack in the cupboard, saw the bananas, exclaimed that he loved them and tucked in. Since then bananas have returned to the dite.
Ahh… complete agreement. I’m also happy to make exception for religious reasons; my son’s best friend is Hindu, and while not vegetarian he and his family don’t eat beef.
We have two chickens running around out the back (old ex-battery hens) and my lad has no problem with the idea that his chicken nuggets are actually chicken… so long as they’re not Blackie and Ginger.
Let him at least try it, says I. You don’t need to like it, but it’s probably (IMO) good parenting to at least not condemn it.
I stopped eating meat when I was 11. No one in my family ate much meat to begin with, though my parents do eat it a few times a week. My parents were fine with the decision, and said that if I didn’t like what they cooked for dinner, I could fix myself something I did like. That worked just fine for me, and my parents did keep a supply of decently-healthy vegetarian food available - a freezer full of soy products, cans of soup, plenty of vegetables and such.
When I first talked to my parents about it, my dad said he went through a vegetarian phase too, and I’d probably grow out of it. Nearly eleven years later he still admits he expects me to grow out of it. Sometimes it is just a temporary thing and it is good to leave that out, but please don’t fixate on that thought.
I’ll also say that I have never had any health issues that are attributable to a lack of meat. I have had issues due to a poor diet in general, but that would have happened no matter what.
Might I suggest a cooking camp or class for your kid. I swear after my daughter took a one week cooking camp she was VERY interested in different foods. I think the cooking and seeing what goes into making food was quite interesting to her and really expanded her eating horizons. Right after the camp she wanted to go out and try Sushi–and now that is a staple at least once a month for dinner for our family.
I agree though–children are weird
oh–and Carol I am heading out on vacation, but when I am back perhaps I will explain the cat story.
Weird is right. CairoSon has also changed his food preferences a million times - I guess that is pretty normal for kids, actually. Bananas, though, you’d think would be on the favored list of all kids at all times, but apparently not.
I was a kid who wanted to be a vegetarian whose parent wouldn’t allow it. She took me to the doctor (who seemed uncomfortable) to get her to tell me I should eat meat, refused to let me cook my own meals, etc. I did not become a vegetarian until college, and even then, when I came home, arguments. I would not recommend going that route, esp. as your son gets older. Being vegetarian is a legitimate choice for him to make, a way of expressing his own identity and POV on the world. 10 is not too young to be developing a conscience, and I think it speaks well of him and of you that he cares so much for other living things.
If he likes chili, there are lots of ways to make that pretty easily in a single pot, with rice on the side for complete protein. You could also teach him to make humus in the blender, or peanut noodles, for minimal use of the stove. There’s also always Italian or Chinese cuisine if he gets more advanced.
I think you’re doing the right thing by getting him to help shop for and prepare his own food. I dearly wish my mom had done that, because I would have learned a lot and it would have improved our relationship. Your son will learn so much and will feel respected and supported by you in his independence and self-determination. I wish him luck and congratulate you for helping him out with it. Let me know if he comes up with any really good recipes!
I don’t personally agree with pure vegetarian dietary choices as we ARE omnivores. That said, I also know that we eat more meat than is necessary. I’d start by letting junior cut out red meat, pork and chicken, but retain fish, eggs, and dairy. See how he does on that for a year or until he tires of it. Make certain he is able to prepare a quality meal for himself every single time. Growing young men also really do need to ensure proper protein intake during puberty, so he might need to add some occasional shakes, etc to his diet. I’d limit soy personally as it has a lot of phytoestrogens that have been shown to mess with hormonal levels on some people. There’s plenty of other sources of protein.
More importantly though is the cultural training. It’s really, really important that you instill in him proper dining behavior. I mean that he understands that his dietary choices are not considered to be the cultural norm. That he is fine with sharing the table with others consuming meat, occasionally going to a restaurant that doesn’t have a wide menu for his restrictions etc. Most importantly that he does not become a preachy evangelical vegetarian. That he is POLITE about his choice to restrict his diet. This will save him, you, and your family a world of arguments down the road.
Agree with the social aspects…more on my five year old vegetarian.
A five year old ethical vegetarian was NOT popular with the other daycare moms. My daughter likes to educate other people, and getting a cheese or almond butter sandwich when everyone else was eating noodle hotdish meant questions for her to answer. Since SHE saw her vegetarianism as all about “save the cute little animals” that was what she told the other five year olds - which created discussions at home that not all the other parents were ready to have.
On the other hand, one of the other girls at daycare had two moms - so we weren’t venturing out into uncharted territory in the ‘awkward things to explain to your preschooler.’
It would have been hard to explain to a five year old (though we tried) that when talking about diet its important NOT to sound like you are judging the choices of others. That you make the best choices from what is offered for yourself, or bring your own (what we did for daycare) - but you don’t let your choices inconvenience others. However, these are important concepts to learn.
Caileigh suddenly decided that she doesn’t like strawberries OR blueberries! WTF? What preschooler doesn’t like berries?! And right in time for pick-your-own season, too!
I had a 10 year old nephew who wanted to veg out. His mother showed him what a balanced meal needs to consist of and helped him learn to cook. He lasted a year. Personally I think he was looking for something to rebel over and when it didn’t work he moved on (What, I have to cook my own meals and they have to be nutritional?)
I just finished reading The Omnivore’s Dilemma - and his chapter on vegetarianism is interesting philosophically. I think all aware and moral human beings should make a conscious decision about eating meat - furthermore I think many intelligent people do this (usually in an imperfect fashion) when they are teenagers - maybe even younger (like my daughter). Generally, the younger you give it a whirl, the more imperfect the information you have to work from is. For many of them it will be a temporary phase, which then leaves with “this is too much bother and I do enjoy meat” and an increased understanding of their niche in the food chain, but for some of them the sacrifices will be worthwhile and they’ll stick it out.
To say “its just rebellion” I think - more often than not - is really dismissive of something that is going on morally and ethically in the brain of someone trying out vegetarianism. And I don’t think we should be dismissive of attempts to set an ethical compass.
I agree, and I think it shows disrespect for the kid’s very logical and rational decision, based on his feelings and values. If his choice is treated as valid, and he’s expected to address it maturely by realizing the magnitude of the changes he will have to make, it will be an actual lifestyle choice and not just a rebellious way of antagonizing his parents. Despite my mother’s very hostile attitude, I have been a vegetarian for almost half my life now. It was not a phase, nor was it just a way to inconvenience, control, or screw with her. Let the kid try it, IMO. Use it as a teaching opportunity and maybe even admire him for making a hard choice based on his emerging ethics.
If you’re referring to my thread you lack the year long observations I was able to make. My nephew was provided with cooking/nutrition lessons by more than one person (myself included). what he wasn’t provided was a short-order cook at every meal.
I have a few comments to make on this. First, you will be happy to know that your son can stay a vegetarian for life and grow up to be quite healthy. My brother is a lifelong vegetarian who is now 6’3" and 210 lbs of muscle. He picked meat out of his food as a child and my child psychologist mother was afraid of scarring him so she learned to cook vegetarian meals that gave him a well rounded diet. The biggest difficulty for her was adapting to the fact that he would not even eat fish, a staple in our household.
Growing up, my mom would cook vegetarian meals for most of the week and multiple entrees for the rest of the week. I learned, at a very young age, which vegetarian dishes were nutritional substitutes for meat dishes. When I began to prepare meals, around 10, I was able to cook healthy vegetarian meals for everyone in the family. Your son is at an age where he is fully capable of learning what ingredients need to be put together in order to meet his nutritional needs.
Like others have stated, I think that it is important for you to become involved in your son’s decision and to support him. When my brother (35) was your son’s age there were significantly less options for him and he turned out fine. Teaching your son how to politely adapt to situations that are not vegetarian friendly is crucial.
He stuck with it a year. That’s a long time to self service your own food, manage your own nutrition, and live without meat JUST to rebel. I’m guessing he had other motivations as well. Particularly since after a year he went back - which implies he does LIKE meat (I know some vegetarians whose stated motivation is ethical or health, but they really never LIKED meat to start with - texture thing. They are usually really good at sticking with it, since they have little temptation to go back).
Want to rebel as a teenager, find a girlfriend/boyfriend your parents hate. Get an odd haircut. Wear clothes Mom rolls her eyes at. Diet is a pretty big commitment JUST to piss off mom and dad. Not that it doesn’t happen - and maybe in your nephews case it was his only motivation. I know a vegetarian (vegan) who I think pissing off Mom was her primary motivation - but she was happiest miserable so pissing someone else off by making life a pain in the butt for herself filled her needs nicely. (She also wore clothes her Mom hated, married a guy Mom hated, and had an odd haircut…and switched religions from her mother’s devout faith. If she weren’t in her late 20s when I knew her, it wouldn’t have been quite so sad.)
Apologies if it’s prying, but is the financial angle an issue? Cooking different food just for one member of the family can be a significant extra expense.
Some relations had a friend to stay and he was finicky, so they had to explain to him that what was on the table was what there was to eat. He stopped being finicky very quickly.
Not prying, and I think it is a legitimate question to consider for the general case. For us specifically, we are fortunate that it is not an issue.
For thrifty cooks, I suspect a single vegetarian household member would not add to the grocery bills in the long run, unless they had a taste for expensive vegetarian alternatives. In the short run you might have to stock up on soy beans, whole wheat, and other vegetarian staples so you’d see a temporary rise in grocery bills. But if you don’t waste food, eventually this would probably be more than balanced out by the savings in meat purchases.
Daughter went vegetarian in middle school–it’s not been a problem. I do tend to make non-meat meals a few times a week (if I cook at all, heh). She went vegan in 8th grade, only for a year, but that was tough. I refused to be a short order cook for her. She tried a lot of different foods that year, though and is now a happy lacto-ovo veggie again. She breaks this “diet” once a year for our Christmas Eve feast of crab legs and crab/cheese fondue. She is now planning in majoring in nutrition science. Next fall she takes a 1/2 hour credit class, “Vegetarian Nutrition”.
The pediatrician has been very supportive–he advised a multivitamin to ensure she gets the iron and folic acid she needs. She drinks soy milk sometimes (she doesn’t like milk), but she loves yogurt, cheese, spinach, tofu etc so she’s getting her calcium.
I have a friend whose daughter also went veggie–but as my friend says, “potato chips are vegetarian”. This girl gained weight, broke out etc–but she went veggie because her peers were doing it–and she ate mostly junk.
Me, I won’t give up meat. I rarely eat beef, but I do love a good roast beef or steak upon occasion. I live on chicken, cheese, pork and seafood (when it’s not too pricey). I remember when veal was dirty cheap and chicken was outrageously expensive, so we would have “mock chicken legs”–veal, breaded on a stick. You bought them in the meat section of the grocery store (which wasn’t allowed to sell meat on Sundays due to some union rule). Ah, memories…
Sorry–what was the question? Of course your 10 year old can eat vegetarian with no harm and indeed a great deal of good to his system.
