—I would challenge anyone who defends the actions of the cops in this case to watch the video.—
I challenge you to mail me 4.95$ 
Also, there is video here (not CNN), but I cannot view it from work due to the firewall.
From what I’ve read about the video, the dog didn’t attack anyone, so this statement is not applicable.
With the link over in the BBQ pit thread, you can see the video for free on some local Tennessee newspaper’s site.
The video does show the dog coming at the officer. “Attacking” is all in the eyes of the attackee, I suppose. I don’t think the dog really was, in fact, attacking, but if I were a cop already on edge about a potentially dangerous situation, etc., then I might have interpreted it differently. The mistake was letting the damn dog out to begin with.
If I were the cop who shot the dog, I would have had quite a few words with the cop who saw the dog inside and wouldn’t close the damn door: “Hey sport, what if that dog really had been a bloodthirsty beast? You let it come after me! And now we know it was just a pet and I’m the one who looks like a jerk for killing their dog! Thanks for the good work, partner.”
GAH! Anyone know of a link where the video isn’t in (surreptitiously checks to see if this thread’s in the Pit) that DARN RealPlayer? As much as I’d like to take a look at this thing, I’m not going to make the mistake of installing that fu… uh, STUPID software.
Anyway.
I can’t imagine what this family’s going through. My boys, wonderdogs Flash and Two-Tone, are family. Emotionally, I’d want the cop in jail for this. Hell, I’d want him on death row.
Haven’t seen the vid myself, so I acknowledge my ignorance.
I’m not an expert on stop and search, but is it possible the police left the door open to improve their ability to see inside the car, if the suspects failed to consent to a search. Just a thought.
Also, I have experienced any number of - what I consider - irrational overractions towards my dopey golden retriever. It does not surprise me that someone would view a dog moving somewhat in their direction as a threat. Would hope for more from the cops, tho. I assume it was a stressful situation for all involved tho. Did it occur at the side of the highway with passing traffic?
Glad to see a pic of the shooter, so we can say race was not an issue.
If someone hasn’t lived with a family dog, then its understandable how they could utterly misread the dog’s body language. I’d bet the shooter never had a dog.
Lets see, Cookeville has a population of 11,987. Small town there, dontcha think? How many felony stops do they get to do? Probably not many.
So the shooter was jumpy, unfamiliar with dogs, and made a stupid decision.
Tragic. If it was one of my family pets (the ultra ferocious standard poodle or the killer Jack Russell terrier), I’d be out for blood.
Isn’t it interesting that we do not hear any member of the family calling the dog off as it ran towards the police officers?
So the police are supposed to know telepathically what commands the dog has been trained to obey, but the dog’s owners can just stand there and not attempt to gain control of the animal. Right.
And speaking as someone who has been bitten by a dog who was wagging his tail, if I were the officer in that situation, Fido is history.
It’s a damn dog. Any police officer is worth more than any dog. Deal with it.
And the next time some police officer gets his face torn open by a dog the local crack dealer keeps to guard his stash, call the police department and apologize to the “pigs”.
Regards,
Shodan
I would have to presume anyone defending the police in this instance hasn’t seen the video, because the video reveals them to be total fools. Having seen the video, I’d have to conclude that the only person who would think the dog was “attacking” anyone would be a trigger-happy moron. Oh, wait.
Trigger-happy cops, like these ones, present more of a danger to society than they do a benefit. It was just a dog… this time. A good police officer knows how to defuse a situation, reduce the danger, and use his weapon only when it’s absolutely necessary. These cops did not defuse the situation, they were irresponsible in dealing with the dangers presented, and they used a weapon when any reasonable person would have seen it was an overuse of force. It was Wyatt Earp syndrome all the way.
Um, you mean “the dog’s owners can just lie there face down with their hands behind their heads and guns pointed at them and not attempt to gain control of the animal.”
Mayor Daley pere’s immortal words on the function of police come to mind.
Shodan, did you watch the video? The dog’s owners weren’t “standing there” letting their dog run wild. They were handcuffed on the ground begging the cops to close the door so their dog wouldn’t get out! And they were completely, totally, and unequivically INNOCENT OF ANY AND ALL CRIME! The dog is not acting in an agressive manner. The dog just wanted to play. Look at his body language. What the hell were they supposed to do? If they had made any move whatsover to restrain the dog, they would have been the dead.
I have personally been on the recieving end of the tender mercies of the Cookville PD. It’s clear to me who is at fault here. The cop had a gun, was itching to use it, and assumed that anybody who was pulled over was automatically guilty as sin.
RickJay is right–this police officer used deadly force unnecessarily. Shouldn’t it be the last resort?
A few years ago a disturbed deaf person in Detroit was shot by a police officer. He couldn’t hear their commands and he picked up a rake. And he wasn’t anywhere near the officers. But apparently a rake is a deadly object at 15 feet, because they shot him dead. Same problem: using the gun as the weapon of first defense in a non-life-threatening situation.
If I were Officer Hall, wouldn’t want to be bitten by a dog, but with all those police officers around with their guns drawn, I wouldn’t worry about a dog bite turning into a mortal dog-mauling. There is no way that officer’s life was threatened, no matter how “aggressive” he says the dog behaved. He’s got pepper spray and he’s got backup, so it’s hard not to think he was trigger-happy.
Nor would I. I would worry about being shot by someone else trying to shoot the dog who was attacking me. Shoot the dog before it attacks someone, not while it attacks someone.
Pepper spray? Against an attack dog? I don’t think so.
Um, no, I mean that “if she can yell at the cops to close the door, she can yell at the dog to come to heel”. And if the dog doesn’t obey, that means she doesn’t have control over the animal, and it is up to the police to remove the possible threat that it poses. On about two seconds notice, and without the option of saying, “Well, let’s see if he rips my arm open before we decide if he is a Nice Doggie or not.”
People who don’t train their dogs to obey off-leash always say this kind of thing. “Oh, he wasn’t going to hurt you, he’s just being friendly.” Then the dog bites someone, and they say, “You must have scared him.”
If you own a dog, you are responsible for the dog’s behavior. All the time. And if you can’t, or won’t, or don’t control it, you lose the right to complain about someone else who can, and will, and does.
Regards,
Shodan
After viewing the (grainy, crappy, RealPlayer) video, it doesn’t look like the family could see that the dog escaped. It seems to me the whole reason they can’t control their dog is because they’re on the ground, being cuffed, with guns pointed at them.
Let me ask you this- if a police dog wrongly went after me and the officer then said “heel” and the dog didn’t and I then killed said dog, would the police view it as “well, we couldn’t control the dog so he was within his rights”?
Shodan - you’re imposing a pretty tough burden there. As I said before, I haven’t seen the vid. And from what this trainwreck sounds like, it may be lucky that the only casualty was a dog.
But these folk had their dog fully in their control, until they were forced out of their car at gunpoint. I doubt too many folk train their dogs in anticipation of such an eventuality. And, as well as you may know your dog, it it tough to precisely predict how it will act in every conceivable circumstance.
For instance, what if you are not home, and someone breaks into your home. Unless you mount a vidcam and run tests, you cannot be certain whether your pooch will maul the intruder or simply roll over for a belly rub.
Or predicting how your dog would respond if you were attacked. Many of us like to think their pup would protect their master, but for all I know she might take the opportunity to save her own skin.
In this instance, I probably would have given my dog a sit/stay command as I was exiting the car. Not sure how long she would hold it, however. Cause I never have cause to leave my dog in my car by the side of the road with the door open while I lie down at gunpoint.
While it sounds as tho the cops screwed up royally - and a civil action should be brought, I personally can’t get that worked up over a dog’s death.
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An officer isn’t necessarily obligated to start with the least lethal amount of force and work his way up from there.
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I once heard someone say “when the only tool you have is a hammer all your problems start to look like nails.” There are companies working on less lethal weapons that officers could use in situations like the above. I think a rake could be used as a deadly weapon. How close should the officer let the suspect come before he discharges his firearm?
He already had the shotgun out and this all happened in the span of 3 seconds. As this dog is coming towards him is he suppose to put the gun down without securing it, get his pepper spray out of his belt, and use it on the dog in a span of 3 seconds or less?
I think it is unlikely that the officer would have been killed if the dog attacked but I don’t see how that matters. Do you at least acknowledge that a dog could cause a great deal of damage to the officer if it was inclined to attack? They have powerful jaws and teeth which could break their arms, crush their hands, or take a healthy chunk out of their leg. Give me a logical reason why an officer should endure a dog attack in order to avoid using deadly force against the animal?
Marc
The suspects were innocent of any crime. That seems like an imminently logical reason to be damn careful with the use of deadly force.
Oooh. Just found this from this site: http://www.newschannel5.com/news/0301/08/dog.htm
Both Cookeville and Tennessee Highway Patrol officials said officers followed proper procedures given the information they had at the time of the felony stop.
Wow!