Uninsured people who oppose healthcare reform

First off, this is remarkably banal. You haven’t been paying attention if you think any Republicans (aside from the north-easterners) are in play. And in case you don’t know, most Democrats are against tort reform.

So where, Shodan are the votes going to come from? How many Republicans are going to vote for the bill in its present form + tort reform? Well?

Here’s one that wont:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/090109dnmethealthcare.3f4782a.html

It’s not my fault that you haven’t been paying attention and I can’t prove to you with quotes of all five hundred some members of congress stating their positions, but I can tell you that exactly one Republican even has a chance at voting for the thing currently and that most Democrats oppose tort reform.

So please, if you want to live in a fantasy world… well I guess you sort of do. :smiley:

Hardly, you made claims of fact that were wrong and then you were too cowardly to admit to it. Still at this point you haven’t addressed a single thing you were wrong about.

You are pathetic, but no one was trying to shout you down. Just hammer through your ideological forcefield and introduce you to facts.

So kindly shut your whore mouth about how oppressed you are. Kthxbi!

Well Mr. Smashy, I tried to engage you with cites and everything without “shouting you down”, even when you referred to my country as “god forsaken”, but you didn’t ever reply to me.

sry, what country was that again?

You back from class already? Your dorm roommate, SmashTheState, left you a message that he was going out for more Ramen Noodles.

PS Pathetic? whore? Coward? Glad to see you don’t call people names… :rolleyes:

PPS There’s been a lot of engagement about these issues, just none aimed at you until you learn some manners young man. I’m guessing you haven’t been reading any of the links I have posted since they’ve completely proven my points. At least some folks have and we actually have engaged in a back and forth that at least I’ve found interesting (I’m looking at you, M4M.

Do you recommend this for everyone who has a job that does not provide insurance?

Do you not see the weakness in that advice?

One more thing:

I consider my self fairly liberal on some issues, conservative on others (especially fiscal; kind of like a Virginia version of Paul Tsongas I suppose).

I have voted for both Dems and GOP recently. I would like to think I can understand another’s motivations for pushing an agenda, without having to necessarily attack them ad hominem style.

You posted opinion pieces that were unfounded. I assume the reason you don’t address the fact that you’ve been shown wrong is that you are afraid of facing it.

Look an honest debater when shown that he’s incorrect says, “thank you”. You instead change the subject. You are not an honest debater. You are an ideological, unthinking wretch.

I didn’t say I don’t call people names, by the way, I said you weren’t being shouted down. You and others like you are a cancer on our society. Your opinions are fed to you by people with an agenda. You are an unthinking robot who doesn’t even know why he believes what he does. I would hope you have the capacity to grow out of that.

I hope, but I haven’t seen the slightest bit of evidence for it. :smiley:

I know I’m forgettable, so here is a summary from earlier in the thread:

My post #43 referenced a meta – study of 38 different analyses that found that

And also that Canada spends far less per capita for this superior advantage.

You didn’t reply to me specifically, but in your post #47 you did say:

My post # 55, referenced a study by Pfizer, which found that:

I tried to correct some explanation you had about the government dictating the salary of healthcare workers, as well as a supposition that the Canadian medical system does a “less quality job” but since then, you seem to have been content with shouting at other posters.

eta: making comments like this:

makes me thing of “attack them ad hominem style.”

So, the same person who posts

doesn’t have any when it comes to his own doom and gloom. Funny, that.

Of course, the same clown spouts shit like this -

Perhaps you should be told to “shut your whore mouth and learn something”.

Not that any reasonable poster would say that. :smiley:

Regards.
Shodan

EP, you’ll have to allow me a little license for fun when dealing with knuckleheads like him. :cool:

As for Canada having better survival rates; good to hear. I wonder how much of a one-to-one comparison is fair, though, considering the different cultures. (ie, do they tend to eat more healthy? smoke less? less chemicals or pollutants? more exercise? etc… so many variables to consider).

as for America being the best… well, it is IMHO. I’m guessing you feel the same way about Eskimo-land.

Like the CBO link with the out-year costs…

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc...mmProposal.pdf

Your apology is accepted

You certainly are the model of cool and rational impartiality, aren’t you?

It will save six billion on the federal side, which is what I initially thought is what we were talking about. But if you count the overall it’s the 164 we were later referring to. I have no problem with those numbers, but to the Republicans who crow about it “States Lines and Tort Reform” are their contributions to the debate. Tort reform isn’t HCR, it’s a small cost saving measure. I agree it should be done, but it does nothing to make HC spending sustainable, the prices will still go up just as fast.

Was that slow enough that even a dipshit like yourself can follow?

Okay, I’ve shown you a quote from a Republican saying Republicans hate HCR in its present form and want to re-write it. Care to address that you angry little shitball? Or more importantly, can you tell me which Republicans would vote for HCR + Tort Reform? Say ten do, do you think more than ten Democrats would be against Tort Reform? Doesn’t that seem likely?

It’s amazing how often you talk about shit you simply don’t understand.

See how it’s done, I address your points. :smiley:

You wanna add “learning how to create working links” to your education plan?

:smiley:

Your argument is really just American Exceptionalism, except you’re arguing that Americans are in exceptionally poor health, and the environment is exceptionally crappy, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

One good thing about a Provincially funded insurance plan that covers everyone is:
There is a huge incentive for the province to put wellness programs in place, encourage regular checkups and innoculations, decrease chemical and pollutant exposure, encourage excercise and healthy eating through programs, try to decrease smoking rates, etc. The province loves these things because in the long run, everyone saves money.

I may think my country is good, but I certainly would not call every single other one “god forsaken”.

Not snarkily, do you have any basis to assess the “worth” that these reforms present?
Because:

I don’t know how just it is to set, by rule, a hard cap for non-economic damages. The facts of a certain case of negligence will determine the amount of damages - it does no victim any good (and it does insurance companies a whole lot of good) to unilaterally and monolithically cap damages where there can be cases where these damages are exceeded and for good reason. I mean do you not think that it’s unfair that if a doctor amputates the wrong leg, effectively rendering you a double amputee for the rest of your life (assuming original amputation still has to occur), you should be compensated for the amount of pain and suffering that creates in your life? really? Opponents will yammer on that that’s an unlikely scenario, but you’re balancing the cost of undercompensating such an unlikely scenario (which does happen) with the cost of overcompensating some other (in my opinion, way less likely, especially because of appeals) scenario where a jury just decided to go rampant and award non-economic damages that have absolutely no bearing to the amount of injury suffered by the plaintiff.

I won’t really discuss punitive damages - they’re typically rare for professional negligence cases. It takes alot to sustain a punitive damage award, they’re not dished out lightly. To the extent that they’re even awarded, sure, limit away if that floats your boat, but then again that destroys the punishing nature of punitives.

Unfortunately, the collateral source rule sucks for 2 reasons:

  1. your insurers will still keep their subrogation clauses, so you lose out doubly.
  2. It transfers the cost of a professional’s malpractice to the collateral source, which would reduce the incentive to render competent services, which is part of the reason for a regime of professional, rather than ordinary, negligence.

Statute of limitations for one year? That’s a little oppressive (it can only serve to help the defendant/insurer here) and it doesn’t really provide any savings in any fairness/incentivization sense. It’s savings by procedural fiat, effectively. I really can’t see a justification to do that (other than the aforementioned fact that it’s hugely helpful to insurers)

J&S liability, again like the collateral source rule, shifts the burdens of a professional’s negligence, this time onto the plaintiff. Now the plaintiff has to prove who did what damage and in what proportion to total damages before he can recover a dime. It makes the prosecution of your suit more expensive and victory less probable (thus, a Plaintiff’s attorney is less willing to take the case which reduces the availability of “justice”). That’s pretty harsh in a medical case, and it’s unfair to the victim. Medmal doesn’t see the potential abuses of J&S liability like an example with normal, everyday negligence where the Plaintiff seeks out the big pocket defendant for his/her 1% of liability so the plaintiff can “win big”. All doctors (probably) carry generally the same, high amounts of liability coverage, so you’re shifting costs for no apparent benefit (again, other than the apparent reason of making it harder for a Plaintiff to prevail, period)

I mean if you read all that (not saying it’s gospel) and still think it’s worth the ~$33.00 per year savings that “tort reform” would bestow upon each person, that’s fine. But I don’t think many people would agree that it’s worth it.

You know what, that’s a pretty compelling argument against Tort Reform. Plainly you brought up a ton of issues I wasn’t seeing because I was concentrating on the savings aspect.

Allow me to contemplate this on the tree of woe.

Go back and re-read the original post then, on pg 3. Everyone else seemed to be able to get to it.

OK maybe you’re right; “God-disadvantaged” :wink:

My argument is, though, that different countries are different. What works for one doesn’t necessarily for another. For example, I keep hearing how obese American kids are (not mine, but I’ve heard…). That MUST play into those rates at some point.