Unions= Fucking Extortionists

I am so fucking sick of unions. They served a purpose at one point in American history, but now they’re just a mechanism to extort money from large companies. I’m not quite sure when labor first dreamt up that they should be on an equal footing with management, negotiating over whether you should pay $10 or $20 for your copay. If I started the company, and I own the company, why, legally, must I even talk to you if I don’t want to?

True story: I was working recruiting about 6 years ago. Twenty year old girl comes in, dumb as a bag of toenail clippings, looking for a receptionist job. Making $25/hour, because that’s what she made at her union job before. Sit her down for a typing test: she gets 9wpm. Nine. Fucking disgraceful.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/14/ge.strike.ap/index.html

This is the best example I’ve seen in a while. Your health care costs are going up? Big fucking deal. Live with it, like the rest of us hard-working Americans. Don’t like the benefits package? Then fucking quit. Sell your labor elsewhere, if you can. Or fucking deal with it. Or focus your energies on changing the underlying health care problems in America through political change. Either way, stay off the fucking streets and get back to work.

amen! Am right with ya. I know a TON of out of work highly educated and skilled technical workers (computer and so forth) that would be more than happy to step right in there and work while accepting ANY medical copay right now!! Get real, people! Everyone is suffering right now – why should you be an exception?

Why shouldn’t they be? They were smart enough to organize together and decide to sell their services as a group. Don’t like it, find another group of people.

Hey, ya know what? They found Jimmy Hoffa. Apparantly he had crawled up your ass and died.

Sorry, that was directed at the OP, not Neurotik.

There was a time when I was totally anti-union. I’d worked in places where we had to hire people from the hall on certain jobs, and those folks couldn’t count their butt cheeks twice and get the same answer. After looking at the big picture, and putting things in perspective, I see the union side of things, too.

Rather than relying on OJT, the unions provide a detailed training program that results in well-schooled tradespersons. Unfortunately, the slackers get the exposure, hence the bad view of unions.

Instead of the broad brush treatment, why not jump on bad workers, period? Union and non-union alike have their share of dimwits. Personally, I’ve never carried a Journeyman’s card, but that doesn’t diminish my respect for those quality workers who have earned the right to so claim.

Look. No one wants to deal with unions. They are the worst because union workers never do a tiny bit more than is spelled out in their union charter or contract. I would rather work with professionals who are there to get a job done, not put in the minimum amount of time and effort so they can go home as soon as the clock hits 5:00pm.

I am anti-union but as a condition of employment was required to join one. I take great exception to the above statement. Just because I am a union member does not mean I put in the minimum amount of effort or time at my job. I work my ass off everyday. I get there early and leave late almost everyday. My fellow co-workers and I are probably among the most professional people you will ever meet. Sure, the stereotype is that union members are lazy, but to make a blanket statement like the one above insults those union members who actually do care about their job.

Just because we are covered by a contract does not mean that we are not willing to bend the rules to make our customer happy. We are the exceptions to the stereotype. Keep this in mind next time.

If unions wnat to exist, I insist that monopolies and collusions be allowed to exist also. It’s just as fair.

I’m a union worker and the amount of effort I put into my job (working in a grocery store) would blow your mind. Sometimes I float (work other stores in the district) and usually for the next month or so my manager tells me that whatever store I just worked at is willing to have me come back anytime I want. My last employee evaluation worked roughly like this: “Here, you fill it out”. I was raised in an environment that hammered a powerful work ethic into me. And I can assure that I have many fellow union members who have similar approaches to their jobs.

And yet at the same time I know many people who either brag about doing nothing at their non-union job or bitch about someone who does the same. With the various anti-discrimination laws and the increase in lawsuits many employers, union and otherwise, are afraid to fire even the laziest of employees. Employment-at-will ain’t what it used to be, union or non-union job aside.

In otherwords how 'bout painting with a less broad brush? And please lose the condescending attitude as well.

I say just get rid of unions. We can all trust big businesses to treat their workers fairly, provide a safe working enviroment, and pay a fair days wage for a fair days work, all out of the goodness of their collective hearts and their deep concern for the welfare of their fellow man, right?

transcript of my union bargaining for our raises:

UCSF: We are experiencing a budget crisis due to the California State debt. But we can still offer you a 1.5% raise.

Union: We demand 5042%!!!

UCSF: No raises for you!

Thank you, Union!

I’m kinda pro-union. The thing to keep in mind is that management has a tendency to take advantage of labor by demanding as much work as possible for as little money as possible. It’s true that this is the American way, but the problem is that in the conflict between management and worker, management has a tremendous advantage.

See, most people have only one job, and if they lose that job, it’s a big problem. On the other hand, management often has thousands of employees, so the loss of an employee is no big deal. Because of this imbalance, it is not uncommon for employees to suffer lots of abuse at the hands of management. The employee’s remedy - quitting and finding another job - is a real pain in the (*&^^.

Having a union can correct this imbalance, although admittedly it can cause other problems.

Unions suck, and one thing a lot of people don’t know is that if you’re in the minority of people who do NOT want a union, you get doubly screwed. Example:

I worked for county government in my last job, and there was an effort to unionize the county employees. The really heavy pro-union employees were the same ones that took long lunches, complained that the work week was 40 hours, and failed to meet even the minimum of expectations concerning thier work.

So in come the union reps. They’re a bunch of doubletalkers who tell us how powerful a union can be. Thier “Main Office” is a PO box at Post Office, Etc. in Orlando. They tell us what great benefits they can get us, because they are a kick ass union. They’re promising 7% pay raises immediately, better benefits, and longer vacations. Things they fail to point out:

  1. They suceeded in unionizing the Fire Department five years before. The FD wanted a 7.6% raise for thier employees. The county could only afford a blanket, across the board 4% raise. Negotiations begin for the union, the rest of the county gets a 4% raise. A year passes. The next COL increase is 4%. The union is still negotiating for a straight 7% for the year before. Another year passes. Again, the rest of the county gets a 4% COL raise. Midway through the year the firefighters finally settle for a 5% raise. In the time they’ve been negotiating, all of the non-union members got a 12% pay increase, they negotiated for 5%, which is not retroactive. Great job union!

  2. Two years after they get the FD, the union reps sucker in the Corrections Officers. The CO’s want better bennies, more money, lots more time off, etc. Since, technically, the corrections officers are law enforcement types, they’re required to meet a health standard. The county negotiates with the union, garnering the CO’s a whopping 4% raise after two years of negotiation, while over those two years the rest of the county got 8%. In addition, the county begins enforcing the health standards with an iron fist, and several CO’s are dismissed or transferred.

How did people get doubly screwed here? Well, a friend of mine who was a fire fighter and his wife, who was a CO were decidedly anti-union. They voted against it, declined to pay dues, and did not want to be represented by the union in any way. Turns out they had no choice. They didn’t have to pay the dues, and weren’t represented by the union officially, but since their co-workers wanted a union, the entire set of employees in the unionized area had no representation if they weren’t part of the union.

That meant that even though they were more than happy with a 4% raise, they didn’t get it. They had to wait for the union to negotiate a 5% raise 3 years later, even though they weren’t members of the union.

The funniest part of this is that so many of the idiots who wanted a union in my part of county government didn’t even understand that a union would have no power. The power of a union comes from the ability to cause a work slowdown or strike if the demands are not being met. Employees of the government are not allowed to strike. It’s against the law, punishable by jail time.

Though the county, of course, said it would negotiate in good faith, there was nothing requiring them to do so. Sure, the union can eventually force them to go to an arbitrator, which is what happened with the FD. But that process takes time, and the county played the game for all it was worth. Essentially, they saved an additonal 12% in cash by not having to give raises to the FF, an amount that more than paid thier legal bills associated with negotiations. And in the end, sensible people who wanted nothing to do with unionization got screwed.

Unions, for the most part, and bad things. Your opinion may vary, but it’s not right.

way to establish a stereotype.

I agree with this entirely. However, most of the times a company’s hands are bound by legal restrictions.

And as far as Miller’s comments about big companies doing the right thing: again, if you don’t like what your company’s doing, sell your services elsewhere. There are too many non-union companies that both prosper and do the right thing at the same time.

Being a part of a union does not mean your a bad worker. I too once was part of a mandatory grocery store union. I made $4.25 and hour, got no benefits, and had to pay $20 a month dues. I quickly found another job. Know who suffered? The grocery store, because I’m an excellent, conscientious employee.

My objection to unions comes from their well-documented willingness to use extra-legal intimidation to achieve thier ends.

In general, I agree with Neurotik’s

And if I find another group of people, and the union protests by marching on public property outside my business, that’s fine too.

But if they harrass my new workers, yelling at them and threatening violence when they try to enter or exit the work site, or when they get threatening calls, or any of that garbage – that’s when unions become extortionists, in my view. I don’t mind a group using their collective might for collective bargaining – they should have every right to do so. I do mind when they resort to extra-legal tactics to strengthen their positions.

  • Rick

The plant my husband just left was recently unionized. Their contract was just negotiated. What the workers got was:[ul] - pay frozen at current level for one year

  • no more bonuses for a year
  • no more company-paid health insurance - they have to pay for their own insurance from the union
  • and of course, they have to pay union dues[/ul]These people were promised the world so that they would vote the union in. Looks to me as if they kinda got screwed. And they’re not allowed to vote the union out for a year. I predict the plant will be shut down before then.

That could be better deal than he could have gotton without the union. At least he’ll be working for another year.

This, of course, is entirely valid. Extralegal intimidation is never acceptable.