**Unwanted Ambulance Called ** Long read PLEASE HELP!

Factual Questions
1

Ok so heres the deal. I was detained by a Fish and Game officer, he said he wanted me to be clear that I am being detained and not arrested.

I was cuffed for over 2 hours and 8 cops showed up to my location. When the cops showed up they asked if anything was wrong with me or if anything hurt. I said " No I am fine" The Fish and Game officer showed them my hands and they had a few MINOR cuts nothing more than a sever paper cut or a scrape to the hand. Once again the police officer asked if I was ok. I said I was fine and didn’t need any medical treatment.

The cuts were received either when I fell or when the Fish and Game officer tackled me there is no telling from which they came from.

This is where the bullshit comes in. The Fish and Game officer said he MUST call the paramedics now 911 call. Immediately I knew this was going to cost me big bucks so I said no I don’t want an ambulance and I need no treatment. He refused to take my answer and since I was a minor he had to contact my parents. He talked to my parents and my mom said that she doesn’t give them permission to call the ambulance and that I don’t need one and that she doesn’t give them permission to put me in the ambulance. He still said he has to call the ambulance.

So how is it that now the officers are deciding whether or not I need an ambulance? Shouldn’t it be up to my discretion? I may have understood if my leg was broken or something but even in that case I would still refuse an ambulance if the bill came out as high as mine. But in my case I only have a few abrasions.

Because from what the cops said direct quote " You don’t have the same rights as a regular citizen now your being arrested and your a juvenile so you didn’t even have the same rights to begin with "
Well then wouldn’t that put my parents in charge of me? And they said they want no ambulance for me.

They said I have no rights and that I was being arrested about 30 minutes after I got cuffed and at the end of it all about 4 hours later the Fish and Game officer came up to me and said " I want you to know you were being detained this whole time and not arrested" I’m assuming he was trying to make this very clear because I was never read my Miranda Rights.
The paramedics came took a look at my hands and said " Well there only abrasions hes fine, but its ultimately up to you guys ( the cops) whether he goes or not"

Now this struck a note with me once again. How is it up to the cops to decide whether I need treatment or not? I told the paramedic directly " I don’t want to ride in the ambulance and I don’t need the treatment." After seeing this made no impact on him I even tried to plead with him to not take me because I knew I wouldn’t be able to pay the cost.

The paramedic said I could either ride in the ambulance to the hospital or the Fish and Game officer or any of the 8 cops on scene could take me to the hospital but it would be up to them if they wanted to take me or not.

Well the cops and the Fish and Game officer walked about 10 feet away to decide my fate. They came back two minutes later and told the paramedics to take me in the back of the ambulance. Once again I said I don’t need the treatment but they didn’t want to hear it they said it was not up to me it was up to them.

Now the part that really frustrates me is the Fish and Game officer followed directly behind the ambulance the whole way to the hospital. Now why couldn’t he have just drove me himself?

It was quite clear to me that the county was feinding for money and just wanted to utterly fuck me over.

So I ride the whole way to the hospital and I get inside and what do I do? I go to the sink rinse my hands off with some water and a little bit of soap and I’m done. The doctors did NOTHING nurses did NOTHING all the doctor did was sign a Medical Clearance form for the Fish and Game officer.

I received no medical attention or care, obviously because I didn’t need it.

So I’m out of the hospital now. Most of the time spent in the hospital was just waiting for the doctor to sign the Medical Clearance form.

I get a bill in the mail a few weeks later for a whopping total of $1,848.17

Now what in Gods name could cost close to $2000? They did absolutely NOTHING for me.

The bill reads:

CODE: DESCRIPTION UNITS UNIT CHARGE TOTAL CHARGE

A0427 ALS ER MANDATED 1 1,657.47 1,657.47
A0425 ALS MILAGE 5 38.14 190.70
How can they honestly charge me $190 for 5 miles? Not that thats even the worst part $1,657 for what?

So the main question here is how can I get out of paying this bill? And do I have to pay this bill? Even though I told them not to call an ambulance multiple times. My parents told them not to call an ambulance and that they even didn’t have permission to call one or take me in one if one was called. Yet the cops still called me and basically forced me to get in it.

2

It might help if we knew what happened to you. If there was a possibility of head injury or something it might make sense to require an ambulance if you possibly weren’t thinking clearly. Also, I would recommend you call a lawyer, not an internet message board.

3

I hope this thread stays open because I really want to know more about this scenario. It’s a good question.

4

If you’re a minor, I don’t think that they can force you to pay.

5

Not a lawyer, but I hope one comes by shortly. Here’s a layman’s reasoning.

If the officer tackled you, then the law might require him to ensure that any damage that he could have done as a result be checked out by trained medical personnel. Of course, the law being what it is, sometimes strict adherence to it is silly, but there is really no other option than to add more nuance to the law. The officer, wanting whatever he would end up charging you with to stand up in court, probably decided to follow the letter of law in requesting the ambulance. As far as how much latitude you are allowed in deciding to decline medical treatment because of your minor status, I have no idea.

I hope someone with some legal training will be along shortly.

6

What were you doing that got Fish and Game officers so interested in you in the first place?

7

I also got an unwanted and unnecessary ambulance ride when I was sixteen. When the bill came, I called and told them my age. I didn’t have to pay anything. YMMV.

8

Punctuation is your friend. Learn to use it.

9

I’ll ditto this, but will add the little bit that I know about cops and ambulances…

Once you are placed under arrest (anyone, not just juveniles) the cops do get to make the decision whether or not to call an ambulance and whether or not you go to the ER. (My husband is a paramedic supervisor and hates these types of calls, FTR he’s on your side.) This is basically to cover their own butts- there is now no way you can possibly claim that the cops inflicted the injuries, denied medical treatment, or ignored a medical need. Until you have been evaluated by a doctor there is officially no way to know the extent of any injuries (even if cleared by paramedics) and if the scrapes turned out to be covering more serious problems, then it is possible that you did not know the severity either and could later turn around and hold the police responsible for lack of prompt treatment.

As far as the costs go…that seems about right since they transported you in an ALS truck (which was unnecessary but probably all that was available). If they had a BLS truck on scene, it might have been a bit cheaper. If you have medical insurance, they might cover all or a portion of the bill, otherwise if you are in a state with a state income taxes, it can be withheld from any refunds due if you do not pay it (since it was through 911- a private ambulance service could not intercept tax refunds as far as I know) and it will be like any other bill- you can dispute the charges, but are unlikely to make them go away. The ER services bill, you might be able to negotiate down to a lower rate, but I doubt you will get them to forgive it entirely.

10

I envision him wrestling with some kind of killer fish, which lacerated his hands with its sharp spines.

11

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice:

Most law enforcement agencies have written policies directing officers to summon paramedics any time force is used or a subject has visible injuries, even minute’ ones. These written policies override the wishes of the subject. Once paramedics arrive the subject does not have to accept treatment, and is usually asked by the paras to sign a waiver declining treatment. This is something that cannot be offered by the officer.

I’ve called the med unit many, many times over the protest of the subject. But many, many times when the med unit got there the subject changed their mind and decided to get looked at.

When the subject declines it is the municipality the police officer is from, not the subject, that gets billed for the call.

Unless I missed it the OP doesn’t give his location. That might help.

12

I’m curious what the difference is between “detained” and “arrested”, myself.

13

I’m not going to give you advice on your specific situation. However, if you really feel that you’ve been victimized, you might want to contact a pro-bono law agency. The website for the state bar in your state should have a listing, and if they don’t, you can call them to see if they can point you in the right direction.

You also might want to try the ACLU. I think there’s a potential for a civil rights violation here, but I’m skeptical based on what you’ve presented in the OP. However, sitting down with a lawyer who specializes in civil rights may help to figure it out.

14

source: http://criminal.lawyers.com/Criminal-Law--Arrest-and-Evidence-FAQ.html

15

I am located in Contra Costa County California. This all happened in Alameda County though.

I still received a ticket though. Would this change anything with the whole " your being detained and not arrested thing’’

I was never asked by the paramedics to sign a waiver of any kind they simply said it was up to the cops to decide whether I should go or not.

I figured it was to cover their own butts and I totally understand that with all these bullshit law suits going around these days. Every scum bag is trying to make a buck off a quick suing over some stupid often made up condition. But I simply didn’t want to pay the cost of an ambulance.

Couldn’t they just offer me a waiver themselves and tell me to sign it on the spot if I refuse to go in the ambulance. Which would work in much the same way the medical clearance form does and would exempt them being sued by me if I discovered some injury with me later on or tried to make one up.

16

If the OP was under arrest when he when the ambulance was called wouldn’t he technically be a ward of the state while he was in custody? If that’s the case wouldn’t the state be liable for the cost of any medical care they forced on him? I don’t see why the OP should be held liable for the cost of medical care neither he nor his legal guardians consented too. There was no contract for services. If fact if he was under arrest wouldn’t the police officer who called for the ambulance technically be his guardian at the moment and thus liable for costs (not the officer personally, but in his capcity as an agent of the state)?

17

seek legal counsel. period.

18

What did you get busted for?

19

Heh. The difference is that the officer was trying to cover his ass vis-a-vis your 4th and 5th amendment rights.

The difference is basically one of time, manner, and reasonableness, etc. I’d love it if a cop said you were only “detained” as an excuse to violate your rights.

Anyway, it sounds like BS to me. Consult a California lawyer, but if you got the ticket as a result of anything you said or did while you were “detained”, you might have a good chance to get it dismissed.

20

That, I think would depend on internal policy and state laws, wouldn’t it? Since they did not offer you a waiver nor allow you to refuse treatment, I’d guess (I do not know) that they couldn’t for some reason. It would be the easier way for them to go too, so there was some reason (whether we agree or not) that wasn’t the case here. I know the paramedics (here) can offer waivers to those under arrest under certain circumstances, but the police can override that (here) and your being a minor might come into play. If your parents were not present to sign, and you aren’t legally able to sign…then they may have had little choice.

I do sort of wonder what would have happened if you refused treatment at the ER itself. As a minor I am not sure you could sign the AMA (against medical advice) forms that would usually be required, but your parents could have if they had been at the ER at the time. Were they informed at least that you would be there and that you would receive treatment (over their verbal objections)?

And I will add my voice to the chorus of “talk to a lawyer”. All we can do here is speculate and guess…if you are serious about wanting to fight the bills or get the legal answers, then that is really the only way to go.