a former Marine had his flag that he was flying upside-down on his private property removed by police on the fourth of July. Apparently the guy was protesting the holdup of the granting of his liquour license after he spent $200k on renovating a spot to turn it into an Italian restaurant.
Read the article and let’s debate this action. I think the police had absolutely no right to come onto his property and remove the flag just because the local attorney and the cops decided he was “creating a disturbance on the fourth of July”.
Total bullshit. The guy is an Iraq war vet and has a right to fly the flag in protest on his personal property as he sees fit.
His quote at the end of the article is particularly telling.
*Congine, a Marine veteran who served in Iraq in 2004, said he intends to keep flying the flag upside down.
“It is pretty bad when I go and fight a tyrannical government somewhere else,” Congine said, “and then I come home to find it right here at my front door.”*
I have no idea if he was just being a crybaby or not as concerned not getting his liquor license, but regardless, I am highly skeptical of there being good reason to remove his flag; the pretenses seem very flimsy. But no one else here is going to vehemently disagree.
Flying his flag upside-down, especially over something as trivial as a delayed liquor license, is kind of a dick move. But it’s a Constitutionally-protected dick move, and rightly so. This would be true whether he had received the Congressional Medal of Honor or if he was a convicted felon draft-dodger: Freedom of speech applies to everyone.
Typically, Marines are not crybabies, so, me being the military man I am, am going to operate under the assumption that he has a valid gripe until I see otherwise.
Yeah, but I have a real problem with local police coming onto his property and confiscating his flag because it made some 4th of July flag wavers uncomfortable.
Not getting a booze permit is often the difference between a biz that stays in biz and one that goes belly up in a few months.
That delay is most very likely a BIG deal. Particularly if he was told x months and now its x plus for no good reason (or even for a good reason for that matter).
But someone facing a delay in his liquor license doesn’t rise to the level of the country being in distress. What’s next. “Oh, I got a speeding ticket I didn’t deserve. Honey, flip the flag again.”? That said, he’s got a right to do it, just like he has the right to be a dick.
There’s got to be more to it than that. Perhaps he isn’t well-liked for some reason and the license issuing authority, fully aware of his financial stake in his new business, is intentionally dragging it’s feet. That would piss me off too.
Its a big deal if it bankrupts him before the business even gets off the ground or shortly thereafter.
He went above and beyond supporting that flag, and because of that, I give him way more latitude than your average crybaby hippy for possible dickish behavior in how he used it.
There’s that too. Funny how the (town representative? mayor? Whomever?) in the article is a Vietnam vet and he actually has a problem with it. Of all the wars to protest…jeez.
*Village President John Deschane, 60, an Army veteran who served in Vietnam, said many people in town believe it’s disrespectful to fly the flag upside down.
“If he wants to protest, let him protest but find a different way to do it,” Deschane said.*
Find a different way to do it, eh? Who says you get to decide how he protests how his attempt at opening a business in your village is going? Fuck you, guy. Thanks for serving in Vietnam and all, but that’s just bullshit.
This is small town mob rule over something relatively trivial, if you ask me.
Next Congine will hire some Mexican to be his dishwasher at the restuarant and these same people will be all up in arms.
Flying the flag upside down may have been a bit much. But what happen was worse. The cops shuld be charged with theft and truspass. And the person who ordered it should be charged with conspirousy.
While I find myself in the camp that thinks the cops performed an illegal seizure, if the DA does find some “disturbing the peace” type argument, I’m pretty sure Congine could make a decent argument that losing the property via bankruptcy would fit within the definition above.
It should be noted that the flag was returned to him the next day. Doesn’t change the fact that they took it, but at least they realized there might be trouble ahead (and still might be, of course) if they had kept it.
It’s not a slippery slope argument. A slippery slope argument seeks to stop or not allow something today because of where it will lead us. I think this is inappropriate overkill in and of itself—today. I was using hyperbole. See the difference?
He’s flying his own flag on his own property. Dick move, but constitutionally protected dickitude. (And it’s interesting how flag-inverting and flag-burning is usually protected under 1st Amendment grounds, but not under property-rights grounds. Both sound like good reasons to me.)
Who cares when they gave it back to him? The fact that they did the very next day tells me they know they screwed up in taking it in the first place.
No offense to you at all. I am the farthest person you’d ever find that ever aligns himself with protestors of almost any stripe.
However, this guy was well within his rights and I generally just hate warrantless violations of private property, or cops just taking matters into their own hands in general.
It galls me when I read the quote from the neighbor, whom apparently had no problem with the guy or what he was doing, asking while witnessing the cops’ actions “What are you doing”?
Response: “It’s none of your business”.
Well, uh, yes it is, officer! I am witnessing you violate my neighbor’s Constitutional rights, asshole!
Did you read any other parts of my post? I’m on your side, dude. Completely. I just wanted to put out the known facts, including that they gave the flag back. If we find out tomorrow that his liquor license was delayed because he’s a convicted felon, has sex with goats, supports the Taliban financially, and screwed the mayor’s wife, I’ll post that info, and I’ll STILL think the police were wrong to take the flag.
Which is why I wasn’t using that argument to go after the guy, but instead in defense of the guy. I was simply saying that if they trumped up some “disturbance” charges, he could simply argue that the was using the flag in a respectful manner, among many other reasons why he’s in the right.