I watched the “Today Show” piece on this and it occurs to me that no matter what laws are enacted to stop the practice, this is going to be a part of life from now on. If I were a woman, I’d probably give up skirts all togather. (Luckily, I’m not :D)
I understand the importance of having laws to address the issue, but isn’t this one of those unfortunate situations where people will be better off avoiding the crime rather than trying to prosecute after the fact? In other words, will a law making this a crime make any difference at all?
I suspect it will have the same effectiveness as lawsuits filed by the RIAA against file-sharers have had against file-sharing.
In other words, a couple people will be prosecuted, most people won’t EVER be caught, and it will continue unabated forever.
FWIW, I find the practice unseemly to say the least. But we need legislation covering it about as much as we need the gubmint chiming in on MLB steroid-restriction, or an electric a$$hole. Which is to say, not at all.
I suspect the idea is to provide a lever for law enforcement to use against websites which feature this, uh, thing. I agree that those sickos who keep their pictures to themselves will be mostly unaffected by the law, but constitutionally it’s a lot easier to legislate against an action (taking the photographs in the first place) than against publicizing the action.
Sure, I totally get that. I just fail to see the immediate need for government legislation on this issue.
This whole thing smacks of sensationalist journalism – something your 10 o’clock news would pimp out as a “special report” to get you to sit through their newscast. Designed, in short, to incite ire and teeth-gnashing, but in reality, not that big of a deal.
I can’t imagine the average woman would be that concerned about it – and if they were, would take steps (like the aforementioned “don’t wear skirts” advice) to circumvent it. However, I am a man, so perhaps I’m overstepping or marginalizing how women feel. I’d be curious how the female half of the SDMB feel on the issue, but it doesn’t feel very…“issue-y” to me.
I’m also a guy, and I can imagine why the “average woman” would be concerned about it. It’s as harassing as a guy going around simply raising skirts, and just shy of toilet/dressing room cameras.
Government does need to be involved - local government. Right now, if some perv wants to attach mirrors to his shoes so he can look up skirts, there is nothing that can be done. Saying “Don’t wear skirts” is a cop out. A woman should be able to wear a skirt in public without fear that upskirt pictures of her are going to be paraded worldwide.
I don’t wear skirts, but I do reject the notion that women could prevent it by not wearing skirts. Skirts are required in so many situations that it simply isn’t feasible to fix the problem by getting rid of them.
I’m completely squicked out by the idea of the upskirt videos, but the rational part of my brain says that it really isn’t a major issue. I could be missing something, though.
It occured to me that some women wouldn’t care and some might even like the idea of titillating a bunch of losers who have no other access to women’s thighs.
I’m sure most women would be creeped out and feel very violated, but I thought the article I linked to in the OP was over the top to say the least.
FWIW, the Today Show bit dealt with a mother and her young daughter who had been ‘upskirted.’ (Upskirted?) Being able to prosecute a few of the extreme cases might make posting a young girls panties on the internet a little less appealing.
As a woman, it doesn’t really bother me-- it’s one of those perspective things. After all, the Peeping Tom isn’t seeing anything you wouldn’t be revealing on a beach. Really, what does it matter if someone sees your panties?
Women are still expected to wear skirts to job interviews and risk losing the job if they wear pants. They are also pretty much expected for weddings and funerals. As a practical matter, they are much cooler on hot days, and are very useful if you ever need to use a squat toilet.
As a woman, it doesn’t really bother me. You win some and you lose some and if the worst I come out is with some guy whacking off to a picture of my thighs, I think I came out ahead. The fact of the matter is that when you are in public, you have a reasonable expectation that the public will see you- even from unflattering or unsavory angles. This is rare enough an occurance and hard enough to define that I don’t think it deserves special treatment or legislation.
What? When I’m wearing a skirt in public I have no expectation that anyone will see underneath unless I happen to fall down or a very strong wind comes along. Someone accidently seeing an area I’d like to keep private is completely different from some jerk deliberately taking a gander.
Why is it so hard to define? It seems to me like it’s an invasion of privacy issue. People have a right to expect that during the course of a normal day their personal privacy won’t be violated.
This is such a weird issue, because it goes right to the heart of some pretty weird stuff about human behavior. I agree that the practice is twisted and cruel, though I think the remedy is to stay away from such people, not to pass laws.
But think about it: why do people want to see a particular person’s undies or even bare twats? And why are people so horrified that someone else might see theirs’? Again, it’s not that I don’t agree that people should have protections of privacy, whatever the reason, it’s just that the reasons seem so odd and irrational.
I mean, let’s be honest. Human beings are not all that different “down there.” We all have legs. Half of us have vaginas where those legs join up. Sometimes we put panties over those vaginas. But the only time anyone looking up a woman’s skirt is in for a surprise is when it’s a transvestite, and even then what they see is just yet another pretty well known sight. Otherwise, it seems both odd that we are so insanely obsessed not only with seeing what’s up a skirt as well as being so nervous and worried about concealing what’s up it. I mean, I’m human, I’m male, and I too have this insane obsession. But I don’t understand it. If people wanted to see any sort of vagina or panty, or upskirt shot, they could download it for free off the internet from sites featuring women that are actually ok with showing them off. They could even find pictures of women that PRETEND not to be okay with it, if that’s their thing. So what’s all the hubbub for trying to get picture actual non-consenting women’s vaginas/panties? And why should anyone be shocked that people can see their vagina? Or penis? I can only conclude that it is a form of insanity that all of use, the watched, watching, and even the by happenstance or value unwatched, and unwatching, share.
Thanks, Mr. Moto. I’ve heard of cases like that where the photographer couldn’t be prosecuted as there was nothing explicitly illegal in his activities, but I didn’t reference it as I could find no cite.
Yes, but the “sticky wicket” is that most of these proposed violations take place in a public venue. So how do you define privacy in a public place? This isn’t happening in a public restroom, where there is a reasonable expectation of temporary privacy. Most of these occurrences are happening out in the open.
It’s inconvenient and intrusive, I grant you, but hardly worth legislating, IMO.