Again and again and again in this thread, I and others have pointed out that Pardel-Lux isn’t Pitting Americans in general. They’re specifically and explicitly Pitting
What I and others are pointing out is that Pitting people who opposed Donald Trump for failing to control the votes of his supporters is ridiculous.
From Brazil to Hungary to Poland to Mexico to Israel to the U.S. to the Philippines and on and on, populists and demagogues and ethno-nationalists have won and continue to win elections in many different countries.
Again, speaking just for myself, I don’t look at the citizens of those countries who opposed the populists and demagogues and ethno-nationalists and feel disgust for them.
I used to hate the disparaging descriptions of rural Americans — there are several, generally ending with “you, know … morons” — and while I still don’t like them, now it’s because I’m not sure they’re fair to decent, hardworking morons.
We’re the ones that have to live in the direct blast of this tumult and chaos. We’re faced with the Supreme Court and possibly the Senate being right wing for decades, and for those of us on the older side we will probably never see this country turn back to some semblance of sanity again. So thanks for kicking half of us while we’re down! No, it doesn’t help.
Many of us who would like to leave don’t have a realistic avenue to do so. About the only thing that would help would be if other countries would open up to American refugees.
This is problematic. The exodus you would be describing would likely result in a net loss in the average IQ of the US. Perhaps a significant loss. Which might not matter, if the US did not already have thousands of nuclear weapons.
I’m not concerned for myself as much as for my daughters. I’ll be pining for the fjords soon enough; since they have female longevity on both sides of their family tree, they’ll likely be looking at another 60-70 years of this shit. And I’d like to spare them that if it’s practical.
There’d still be enough sneaky smart ones left to run things I think. Not trump but people like Mitch. Hopefully the Mitches would not set off the nukes. I hope.
What is the intellect/honor trendline there? Follow it to the next guy and the guy after that – now do the same projection but taking away all the checks imposed by the kind of people that would be leaving the country.
I think we make a mistake by believing they are stupid. Trump acts stupid but may not actually be that stupid. IMO he knows that most of what he says is false but he and his staff know that at least half the country, possibly more, is extremely gullible and also low on information or just not willing to spend much time to look up accurate information. I don’t think trump knows diddly about governance and doesn’t care about good governance, but he gets info from advisors on what he can get away with politically, plus he IS good at manipulating and entertaining those low information voters. He knows what they like to hear and keeps saying it. He is also very practiced at getting press attention.
He’s not playing 4th dimensional chess, but he’s got the information, tools, and talents for hoodwinking the gullible and low information blocs.
I have a sneaking suspicion that none of this Trumpism phenomenon seems surprising or devastating to, say, most black Americans. Overconfidence in basic American fairness and decency is one of the features of white privilege (and not just white American privilege, as we see from the reactions of the OP).
The discussion of education is at least a substantive one. I’m doubtful education is a panacea, though.
I’m certainly not going to argue against improvements to childhood education. I think it’s an unalloyed good, an worthwhile end in itself.
But, if you’re a Kentucky coal miner, whether you believe the coal you’re mining was formed 3,000 years ago or 300 million years ago has no impact on the brute fact that the U.S. coal mining industry is in steep decline, even dying. It doesn’t change the fact that the decline is having devastating impacts, posing an existential threat to your livelihood, the livelihoods of your friends and family, and the economic viability of your community.
The best curriculum in the world isn’t likely to convince you to view the economic devastation you’re seeing as necessary and ultimately beneficial creative destruction.
Maybe it will help you to see through the empty promises of populists and demagogues who don’t actually have solutions. Maybe it will make you less likely to blame scapegoats and Others. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
But, at the end of the day, if one guy is saying that we need to move away from coal (but here’s some wonky technocratic re-training programs so you can re-start at the bottom of a new career that may never materialize competing with people younger than your kids), while the other guy is promising to fight for the industry you and generations of your family have depended on…
Yeah, but if you already have that education to move on…
And it’s not just the current generation. Maybe I’m in my 50’s and I’m not really up to changing industries. But, we are supposed to want better for our children, and do they really want their children digging in a hole underground when they could be doing something safer and more lucrative?
Oh, for sure. Again, I am absolutely not arguing against trying to improve childhood education.
But humanists, atheists, skeptics, liberals, and progressives tend to see “education” as a panacea for “wrongthink.” If only they were better educated, people wouldn’t be inhumane/religious/believers/conservative/reactionary. I’m not so convinced of that.
Trump supporters think differently than I do. They have lower levels of social trust and higher levels of threat perception. They have different values. Their brains just seem wired differently. I’m not sure how much impact education can have on that.
Again, I’m not arguing against education. Maybe the right sort of education reforms would be more effective than I think. I’m definitely not an expert. But I’m also not convinced that if only Iowans had better kindergarten classes, they wouldn’t have voted for Trump.
The fact is, we’re facing huge social and technological upheavals, and as much as I personally believe in it, liberal democracy really isn’t self-evidently the best path forward. I personally doubt there’s any magic bullet to defeat populism and demagoguery and ethno-nationalism. It’s likely to just be a long, hard, painful slog.
I do think that critical thinking, and being exposed to ideas that are not a part of your everyday world are an important part of that.
Yeah, but what causes it? If it were genetic, I’d have pulled the lever for Trump the other day. If it was cultural, I would have pulled the lever for Trump the other day. I was raised to be a Trump supporter, and I fit squarely in the demographic of a Trump supporter.
I do think that it is because I am more curious, more willing to challenge my beliefs, more willing to update my worldview with new information.
I don’t think it’s enough to offer an education, I think somehow we need them to want an education.
By the way, in case this is not known in the USA. In Europe schools are mandatory up to a certain age (usually 16, I believe). There is no home schooling. (Exceptions are made, I believe, in case of illness, very rare). And education, including university, is free (or almost, you may have to pay a token amount per semester). You may send your children to a better school or private university if you want, that may be expensive. But you always have an affordable alternative.
