I’ve been curious for the longest time about the precise differences between being an MP and being a cop. I realize there are multiple specialized positions in each field, so for the sake of argument let’s take as two case studies a soldier who just graduated from MP training and a cop who just finished his first six months; what, precisely, is going to be the difference between their training and responsibilities?
First, the responsibilities lie in the different jurisdictions. Federal law prohibits the military from participating in domestic law enforcement–with minor exceptions such as drug interdiction, during times of war, etc. In other words, Johnny MP will not be directing traffic or issuing parking tickets to you downtown.
The Civil Police, however, do not have wartime jurisdiction to say, apprehend suspects on a military base, arrest for military crimes (anything against the UCMJ), and given a particular scenario, would not handle EPWs (Enemy Prisoners of War).
The MP sticks to military law, on military bases, and the Civil police stick to civil law in whichever town and state they’re serving for.
That’s basically it in a nutshell . . . Why, do you have specific scenarios?
Tripler
Google “Posse Comitatus Act” and that will provide you a multitude of links which seperates the military from domestic law enforcement.
I’m fairly certain that the civilian police may arrest persons on military bases who’ve violated the civilian laws. I’m also fairly certain that the civilian police have no authority to arrest military members for offenses that are solely offenses against the UCMJ.
But I could be wrong.
Well, I was mainly curious after a friend mentioned that a decent percentage of US Army MPs end up taking jobs as civilian officers after leaving the army, and I was trying to figure out whether they were doing the exact same jobs, or whether a job in a civilian precinct would provide a significantly different experience than that in the army. (on a side note, I just want to point out how unnerving it must be to know that anybody you end up arresting as an MP will have had [potentially] extensive firearms and hand to hand combat training. ^_^)
No, you are absolutely right, and I should clarify my over-simplified explanation:
In a battlefield environment (or whatever you would consider a “martial law atmosphere”), the civil police really wouldn’t have power to exercise military law–but then again if it’s a battlefield environment, this presupposes that “civil law” has been suspended anyway. Back in the states when units are “in garrison” (i.e. at home), it’s usually the way you put it with some exceptions.
A perfect example: Several airmen running guns and drugs from their homes on base may face way stiffer punishment from military law than civil law. In that case, prosecutors meet and agree that they’ll be tried in a Federal court (where military law is adjudicated). If it’s an offense that the civil law wants them for but the military may not be apt to handle-- like bouncing multiple checks, violating state fraud laws–then the base would detain the offender until the civil police came, arrested the offender, and charged them in a municipal/state court.
In those “gray areas” it’s give and take-- and usually taken out of the offender’s hide. I give you both examples of what occurred in my squadron in the past year.
Sometimes it’s also a matter of physical location: bases are considered federal land. Civil police usually have to request permission to enter the base (and are almost always granted access) to make an arrest. If base authorities want to execute a search warrant on a member’s downtown house, they have to execute it through the civil police downtown–base cops can’t just go into your private off-base residence.
I am not a lawyer, but I should play one on T.V. 
In the matter of the OP, it’s the training one gets that is extremely valuable to those in the private sector. If you’re trained in the military to be an MP, chances are that those skills mirror those of a civilian police officer, just as training as a military pilot crosses over to the commercial aviation industry.
Tripler
I try not to cross the line on either sides of any law.
A civilian police officer has zero authority to exercise military arrest powers. In the case of a civilian police officer arresting a deserter from the Armed Forces, that is pursuant to a federal arrest warrant. It does not grant the civilian police officers extraordinary powers.
FWIR, the military law is adjudicated in a court-martial, which, of course, is a federal court, but a particular federal court. Also, the military is quite capable (and has been doing so for years) of prosecuting offendors for bounced checks, etc. For the search warrant, the military police may be granted one, IIRC, by a federal judge whose jurisdiction includes the member’s off-base residence.
I won’t argue too much, but I will say that for the day-to-day operations, the base military police will usually work with the local police to exercise warrants, arrest members, etc. Bases like to keep their surrounding communities happy, and vice versa, so there’s usually agreements between the powers-that-be in such matters. I’ve dealt with those as a ‘Section Commander’, but it never got much more detailed than that. Now if a suspected crime warranted going that high on the ladder (i.e. breaking a federal law downtown, and “the feds” got involved), then I’m sure a federal judge could issue a search warrant. But those were rare. . . sort of on the order of running a Meth lab with ties to two or three states ([sarcasm] yeah, that never happened when I was around . . . :smack:[/sarcasm]). To be honest, I don’t know what the ‘search warrant’ procedure is for searching on-base quarters. It’s not your private property, and it’s on federal land. . .
The military is quite capable of prosecuting misdemeanors, and usually handles them with non-judicial punishment if possible (Article 15s), but there is bargaining done when committed crimes hit that “grey area”–such as our former Staff Sergeant who was dishonorably discharged for misdemeanors (he had a pile of 'em), to face the bounced check charges in court and ultimately serve 6 months in the county clink.
IIRC, and correct me if I’m wrong, civil police can arrest any military member (or civilians for that matter) for anything with reasonable cause. It’s just making the charges stick is the problem. But you are correct, a civil police officer has zero authority to arrest when a crime purely against military law is suspected/been committed.
Tripler
Man, we’ve kinda taken this thread somewhere else, haven’t we?
There is some overlap. MPs may have an advantage with getting hired depending on the the hiring policy of the department. They still have to go through the civilian police acedemy. Mps do the regular police work on post. Traffic enforcement, DWIs, domestics and petty crimes. They have zero jurisdiction outside of post. Unlike a civilian police officer that can arrest state wide if he witnesses a crime. The investigative serives within the military have wider jurisdiction such as army CID and NCIS. MPs police jobs are only part of what they learn and train. On an active duty post they usually go through cycles. One cycle they will be handling the police work on post. When they rotate out they train on their wartime mission EPWs, rear security etc.
Generally, you’d need a search authorization and probable cause. The Constitution, specifically the 4th amendment, applies. Military members have a valid expectation of privacy in areas that they control on a military base, such as desk drawers, personal vehicles, racks and lockers, etc. A commanding officer, wishing to search such an area can seek a search authorization from a military judge (the best option), s/he can give a search authorization on their own provided they are not directly, actively involved in gathering evidence, or they can seek consent.
Of course, then there’s that whole ‘health and wellness inspection’ subterfuge.
Okay. The threat title made me expect a fight.
So, who are we betting on in a fight to the death? The MP or the Metro PD guy?
Scenario 1: Both get their standard tools of the trade.
Scenario 2: No tools. Ultimate fighting championship. No 1920s-style Death Rays!
I understand MP’s can be assigned what would be considered combat duties in a combat theater of operations, like providing security for supply lines, checkpoints, guarding prisoner transports, and coordinating with local law enforcement.
Other than that, MP’s mainly have jurisdiction over military installations, enforcing and deriving their authority from the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice) as well as special orders issued from the command to which they are attached.
Hmm, now that we’re on the topic of juristiction, let’s muddy the waters a bit (this has answered my initial questions; thanks all around. ^_^)
Let’s say that an army sergeant leaves the base on leave, walks into a civilian convenience store, and holds it up. He steals less than $2,000 or whatever the felony limit may be, making it a misdemeanor. He then proceeds to jump into his car and conduct a high-speed chase with the civilian PD that came to arrest him. He makes it back into the base with his ill-gotten loot, and here lies the crux of our problem: can the civilian PD chase him into the base and apprehend him, and conversely would base MPs have the authority to arrest him for non-federal, non-UCMJ crimes?
It would be over in a matter of minutes. The civil police would notify the base MPs of the suspected charges, and would more than likely escort the CP to where Sgt. Dumbass lives. He’d be arrested on his doorstep–either by the MPs and confined until further notice, or hauled in by the CP for booking and arraignment.
Tripler
The real crux of the matter is “IF” he gets through the base gate. Big “if”.
Until 2001 most army bases were open. No gate. No guards. I think it changed sometime around September. Now it wouldn’t be too easy.
It’s just a change of jurisdiction… what would happen if any civilian John Doe stole a car in Georgia, was pursued by police, and crossed the Florida state lines in doing so? AFAIK the Georgia police must notify the Florida police while maintaining pursuit in Florida, and must yield control of the situation when Florida is in place to take over the pursuit/arrest. I am pretty sure UCMJ works the same way in peacetime.
The Sgt is always subject to the UCMJ regardless of his physical location, and all of the crimes listed in your example are in violation of the UCMJ.
I agree with Tripler, however, that there’s a big IF as to whether he even gets on the base at all.
Actually, since this thread’s been hijacked six ways from Tuesday, even by the OP: does double jeopardy apply between civilian laws and the UCMJ? Suppose our Sgt. Dumbass does something which, under state law, earns him a penalty of a simple monetary fine, which he then pays. Can he then be court-martialed under UCMJ for the same offense, provided his CO feels like doing so?
Good question, and with my limited legal knowledge, I can’t answer with any legal authority. However, in my observation, and due to the constitutional prohibition of “double jeopardy” , no. But, the commading officer can tack on other charges such as “conduct unbecoming an officer” or other charges under Article 134 of the UCMJ which prohibit any conduct against “the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces”. So, if Sgt. Dumbass bounces checks and pays a $500 fine, might still be militarily charged for something specifically not addressed by the civil courts but accompanying the act.
Unfortunately, I can’t think of any particular examples I’ve seen. . .
Tripler
I’ll let a lawyer detail further.
IANA lawyer but I think this is again a jurisdictional question. Double jeopardy doesn’t prevent you from being brought up on both state and federal charges, or being the subject of both a civil and criminal action. I am guessing UCMJ is not terribly different from this, when an offense occurs within UCMJ jurisdiction. Now that I think of it, I think DUI is a good example of this. When I used to be in the Army, if you got a DUI in civilian jurisdiction, they promised us we would face a general court martial resulting in anything up to and including loss of pay, forfeiture in rank, confinement of quarters, and dishonorable discharge. (a civilian court can’t do these kinds of things).