US Dopers - does the world's antipathy to Bush make you like him more?

Great Debates
61

Thanks for the link, Collounsbury.

To me, the most interesting part of that poll was that eight out of nine countries polled - all of which have significant or majority Muslim populations - had majorities of respondents who expressed fear that America “could become a threat to their countries.”

It will be interesting to see how that fear plays “on the ground.” Will the fear expressed by Muslims in the poll translate to political action against America and its interests (i.e. surge in the number of terrorists)? Obviously, it’s possible. I have little doubt that our actions in Iraq convinced a number of Arabs/Muslims to take part in terrorist activities (or resistance activities, depending on your perspective). How many? Who knows.

Then again, maybe Arabs’/Muslims’ fear of America will translate to a different reality. I know this is Machiavellian, but I think most people who are scared by overwhelming power tend to try to resign themselves to that power. The power that is hated and viewed as weak is the most vulnerable. Obviously, as Machiavelli said, it is best to be both loved and feared, but since that is very difficult, fear will do for now.

So far at least (and it’s way too early to tell, I know), I’m leaning toward the latter interpretation, at least for now. After all, neither Hamas, the al-Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade, nor Hezbollah has perpetrated an atrocity during the summit at Aqaba, which is their typical MO when Palestinian/Israeli peace threatens to rear its pretty head.

Why no attacks? I have no way of knowing the real reason, but I think that the aforementioned groups recognize that the balance of power in the Middle East now has shifted. Obviously, these groups despise America, but nevertheless, given American power on the ground in Iraq, Hamas may think it has no choice but to give the United States an opportunity to shape Israeli-Palestinian relations, at least for now.

To the international Dopers, I say this: I really hate that I’m thinking this way - I never thought I would feel like I would have to. I take no pleasure in writing this, none whatsoever. :frowning:

[…Ducks and runs as the wrath of the SDMB descends upon me…]

62

Because he’s making the rest of us look bad?

63

Y’know, offering excuses for disagreement seems just a little patronizing, december.

FTR, I live in the US. But even if I didn’t, US foreign policy spills over into the policies of my (and other) countries - I have no choice but to be concerned with US leadership. Noone has.

As for “being at the mercy of our media”: :rolleyes: What makes you think that we unwashed furriners have less capable or more biased media than the US ? My experience in the US so far does not seem to support that view. (I’m currently “enjoying” a workplace where Fox News seems to be the news channel of choice - and it’s not just that the reporting is biased, it’s bad.) And thank your lucky stars that there’s little reporting on Rush Limbaugh’s views abroad, because he does not reflect well on your country. Or wouldn’t, if anyone abroad were able to take him seriously.

64

So Limbaugh is hated, but Chomsky is loved in Europe?

65

To be honest, Chomsky’s only really famous in Academia over here, and that’s primarily for his work on linguistics. However, he is well-thought of in those circles, as European universities are all pretty lefty (cite: I can’t. But it’s the impression I got. Lot of Marxist theory flying around).

66

I’ve been told by his fans that he gets a lot of TV time in Europe and his books are frequently best-sellers. Over here he gets very little of either. He’s considered a crank by most people in the US.

So is Limbaugh, by the way.

67

I wasn’t aware that I was supposed to sit around worrying about PR. I have a life to lead over here, I could care less if someone in some tiny town in France or any other country thinks the President is a boogerhead.

68

Unless, of course, that Frenchy was the owner of Citroen who was doubting whether to contract Steel Inc Ill. for a large order or should he order with Stahl GMBH in Bavaria.

69

Do you see a difference between “someone in some tiny town in France” and the majority of the world’s population, including the USA’s allies?

70

The majority of the world’s population?

Cite?

71

Jeez, I care even less about the world’s opinion of me than I do about its opinion of Bush!

Just for fun, here’s some more opinions that will “make us look bad”:

One of the President’s biggest responsibilities is the safety & security of his fellow citizens. And if he’s got to ignore the petulant whining of the international community to do it, we’re OK with that.

Americans certainly don’t want a President that will put international concerns before American ones.

72

I’m surprised that no one else has picked up on, or commented on the Pew Research Center poll findings indicating that the U.S. is viewed more favorably, in some cases much more favorably abroad now than it was just before the Iraq war (see my previous link).

If those numbers are valid, then why, for example, do people in France and Germany now see the U.S. in a much more positive light than they did just a few months ago?

73

I honestly thought that it was a given that everyone accepted that Bush was very unpopular abroad (and unless he works miracles in Palestine - fingers crossed - will probably remain so). I find it inconceivable that more people like Bush in France and Germany than before Iraq II. Also, it’s worth bearing in mind that people do see Bush and America as seperate entities.

74

Common pitfalls in any such discussion. Then again, there are American Bush supporters who “accept it as a given” that the negative world opinion is unfounded and caused only by Anti-American meanness, and “find it inconceivable” that anyone may not realize the rightness of George’s positions.

75

I’m not making a claim, just asking you to consider the difference. Other posts here have offered evidence in the form of opinion polls which some people accept as valid and others don’t.

76

Even in the UK, where you might of thought he would of had the most support of any other country outside of the US, a poll (at the start of March) was conducted asking the question: “who is a a bigger threat to world peace, GWB or Saddam?” 45% voted for GWB, another 45% voted for Saddam.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/03/uttm/main542472.shtml

Also another poll showed that 75% of Britons disagree with Bush’s policies

I think it is pretty safe to say there is a majority personal antipathy in the world towards GWB, I think you would be unable to find any evidence of popular support for Bush in any countries outside of the US and possibly Israel.

77

Actually the stats do exist.

From an NPR story I heard last night Here is a transcript

78

I did not vote for Bush.

But, my choice was not based on the views of people in other countries. Basing my choice on that would run counter to my nation’s intrest, and would be altogether unreasonable.

His ability or inability to transact business with other nations amiably while he is in office now will influence me, however. He is expected to be able to maintain good relations where possible, & if he cannot, he will not have my vote.

79

Depends on who you ask. Clinton was very unpopular with a large, loud faction, but not overall - even while being impeached by that faction, his approval ratings polled in the 60-65% range.

You’d find a similar dichotomy in Bush’s ratings, too, but I would have to agree with others that I don’t see a reason for foreigners’ views to have a real effect either way.

80

Degrance’s NPR link leads you to the full Pew report. On page 19 (sorry, can’t cut and paste), the “favorable attitudes abroad” survey is reproduced. According to Pew, every single nation which was surveyed before the Iraq war has now demonstrated increased favorable opinion of the United States. Some of the approval rating increases (which undoubtedly reflect opinions about Bush’s policies, if not the man himself) are startling - there was nearly a tripling of the previously low approval ratings in Spain, and close to double the number of Germans previously surveyed now say they view the U.S. in a positive light.
70% of Britons reported a positive view of the United States; and other nations with a 60% positive rating or higher included Canada, Italy, Nigeria and Australia.

Bear in mind once again that I dislike Bush and his policies. I am also amazed and disgusted that American media (including the New York Times, which seems intent on seeing how low its reputation can sink) have taken the Pew report and chosen to completely ignore the rebound in positive views of America abroad following the war, in favor of a gloom and doom scenario about how everyone hates us.

I can only imagine how the even more virulently anti-Administration foreign press is playing the story.