Well, I don’t know about the other services, but from my perspective, it’s more than just suggested. You will pop off a salute unless you have a good reason. If I make eye contact with a junior (my personal limit is two ranks below and lower), and they pass me without popping one off, I’ll stop them. I do this because I don’t think it’s proper for me to let them go on thinking that ignoring a senior officer is ok. It’s not, and they can get in trouble for it if they piss off the wrong guy.
I won’t jack anyone up for the offense unless there’s a prior history involved. But I do feel like it’s my duty to stop them and tell them not to do it anymore.
I think you’ve got it backwards, flyboy–the argument is whether returning a salute is required by code, not saluting a senior officer (which no one seems to disagree about, that it is required).
As a Navy Commander, I’ll say this: if I saw a junior officer blow off a salute from a sailor, I’d question him or her about it, and he or she had better have a good reason. Regardless of code, it is, in my opinion, disrespectful to fail to return a salute.
Along with CutterJohn, I feel saluting is silly outside of a formal setting, such as a unit award ceremony or morning muster. There are a variety of reasons why I’ve reached that opinion. One is that it’s an unnecessary and compulsory action required of individuals while walking or working outside.
The rule about an officer having to return a salute from every single enlisted man when outside seems Bizarre and incomprehensible to me. Doesn’t it actually interfere with the speed and efficiency they actually get things done when working outside?
Having thought about it, I’m sure that’s about it. I think the point my company commander was trying to make was that sailors never salute left-handed, while the Army sometimes does.
I was a being a bit tongue in cheek, but I was highlighting the “individuals” part. I was never in the military, but from watching countless movies it seems to me that rigid enforcement of arbitrary and (on the face of it) nonsensical customs is a primary mechanism for instilling obedience and devotion to the group. If soldiers start questioning “why should I be saluting, anyway?” then next thing you know they’ll be asking “why should I be risking my neck charging up that hill?”
Well, there’s certainly nothing “nonsensical” about displaying respect to senior officers. I can understand your post, as you’ve never served, but I can see you have no idea what you’re talking about. I mean, movies? That’s what you’re entirely basing your observations on?
Recently retired AF SNCO here; my last assignment was at a training base where there were many brand-new lieutenants, who we were encouraged to mentor and help as they transitioned into positions of leadership in the AF.
We definitely expect and demand that young lieutenants (and other officers) return salutes. I can confirm that we SNCOs often provided an immediately, firm, but usually private correction to eltees who we witnessed make the very big mistake of not returning salutes.
Woe be unto any eltee who tries to pull the old “Well, I outrank you, sergeant” or (even worse), “Well, I outrank you, chief.” A word to the command chief, passed to the wing commander, and that eltee would receive a very firm lesson on how things work, probably from the wing commander himself or herself. An eltee trying to pull rank on a SNCO is almost unheard of in my experience, and produces a very stern reaction from the lieutenant’s leadership in every case I’m aware of.
A bit off topic, but relevant to the idea of senior NCOs correcting lieutenants: I once observed a young lieutenant in charge of a group of about 100 Airmen and NCOs who were forming up for a photograph on the flightline. The troops stood in the sun as they waited for the photographer to show up–the eltee stood in the shade under the wing of an aircraft parked out there. I stepped over to him and leaned toward his ear. “Sir, your troops are standing in the sun.” He looked at me and said “Yes, they are.” A beat or two passed, and I said “You probably should be too.” An awareness came over his face and he said “Oh, yeah. You’re right,” and stepped out into the hot sunlight, taking a position in front of the troops.
Good lieutenants can hear and benefit from this kind of mentoring, and that’s what SNCOs in the AF provide, typically.
For me it was seeing an officer with his salute held permanently as he walks past hundreds of sailors on the pier all going home at the end of the day, or as Robby brought up, lines of hundreds of students changing classes. It was just a bit comical. I’ve no issue with gestures of respect, but certain situations do take it to nonsensical lengths.
Salutes are only performed at formal affairs while inside with no ill effect on unit cohesion, morale, and whatnot that I could detect… I saw no good reason that practice couldn’t be maintained outside as well. Obviously, it is one of the more minor nitpicks I had with the military. Slightly annoying for me, but easily tolerable.
I’d hazard to say that there is something nonsensical about *forcing *soldiers to display respect. The way I see it, soldiers show respect by doing their jobs; anything more is just needless ass-kissing that demeans everyone involved.
Some militaries do just fine without day-to-day saluting.
Frankly, I’m shocked that someone made it as far as LT without being taught the basics of leadership.
Well, Second Lieutenant is O-1 (the lowest Commissioned Officer pay grade) so it’s not all that high up the ladder and there’s no requirement for the 2LT to have been prior Enlisted.
