I don’t believe the state universities make it easy to qualify for in-state tuition rates. I believe that if you apply from an out-of-state address, you can’t then qualify for in-state tuition rates so that you’d need to move into the state before applying.
One difference is that it’s probably going to be harder for foreign students to establish residency. Not that it’s necessarily easy for domestics either, mind you, as the laws are often structured to prevent students gaining residency (even if such laws conflict with the state’s constitution).
If she’s attending a US high school and taking US standardized tests, she should be for all admission intents and purposes treated the same as a US national. The admissions officers might not even know she’s Canadian, unless it’s on the application form. Foreign nationals are handled differently in the admission process because grades and test scores have to be converted and compared to US grades and test scores.
Financial aid, loans, etc. may be different, but the admission process should be exactly the same as her high school peers.
Does her high school have a guidance office? If so, I’d suggest setting up a meeting.
I’m assuming that’s “demonstrated need met” as the college sees it based on FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) and/or CSS (College Scholarship Service), or similar, paperwork. What’s on paper doesn’t always match the real life need of the student’s family. CSS is often pointed to as being better at incorporating more nuanced information to determine if the family has other necessary expenses that would impact their ability to pay for college (the one example that sticks out in my mind from my CSS training is being able to demonstrate financial responsibilities toward an elderly grandparent – you just can’t stop paying for a nursing home to send a kid to college). Even with CSS though, I have seen the more detailed reporting work out to the benefit of some families, and the detriment of others. FAFSA is worse, IMHO, the portion the family is assumed to be able to pay is often “you could afford this and not starve to death, if you do not buy one other single thing during the kid’s time in college.”
All US colleges will need to know if the student is international, we have to report it to the government. It’s possible that some schools will keep that blind during the admissions process, but the ones I’m familiar with, citizenship is right there in the open.
There’s not any good rule of thumb about what percentage of the sticker price any given student will end up paying, it just ranges too much from college to college (but that’s a good question to ask on college visits: you want to ask it two ways: What percentage of students receive aid? and What is the average aid package, broken out into scholarships and loans?). There’s also a huge range of what kinds of scholarship aid is available to international students - the school sets that policy, and more tuition-dependent schools will often put international students at the end of the line. EVERY SINGLE TIME when your daughter asks a school about financial aid packaging, she has to start with “I’m a Canadian citizen.”
It’s almost impossible to say “most colleges” about anything, because they all have their quirks, but those I’m familiar with will strip GPAs … we take out any classes we don’t care about (including some APs) and recalculate using the standard 4.0 as the max, and that’s what’s used to compare the applicants.
As she’s in a US high school, it will be nearly impossible for her to miss the cycle deadlines. But to give you a sense:
Junior year: reviewing materials, visiting colleges, making a short list.
Senior year: completing and submitting applications. Early decision/early action deadline is usually in November for a December notification. Early decision 2 is usually due in early January for a February notification. Regular admission is usually due in January for a late March/early April notification.
Colleges that have rolling admissions take your application and then notify you as they decide.
But it can happen. Back in the day, many of my classmates had moved to Texas from other parts of the country, living and working there for a year just to establish residency before applying to school.
A good, student-focused website for learning more about the entire process is the College Board’s Big Future website:
The College Board is a nonprofit that manages the SATs (among other assessments), and they participate in a lot of education research and advocacy. When it comes to admissions, they know their stuff.
Another question: can anyone give a knowledgeable opinion about how much weight is given regarding the attended high school? Is this something that the schools consider?
Also, how much does non-academic efforts affect the process? Back in Canada “they” SAID that non-academic events (sports/social participation/etc) played a role when judging applicants but the reality in practice was that grade average was the sole thing they really looked at and non-academics only came into play when a Uni was trying to decide between specific applicants who were particularly evenly matched otherwise. (This one actually has me concerned since I’ve never really pushed her into any such activities).
Thanks!
If other students have applied from that high school, then the admissions officers may be familiar with the school and how rigorous its education is.
Colleges know high schools, especially high schools in their regions that are big feeders to the college. But even beyond the obvious ones, like a state university will be very familiar with high schools in that state’s major cities, one thing that was AMAZING to me when I started doing admissions work is how individual admissions reviewers quickly gain an enormous mental catalog of high schools. And we talk to each other, so if I have’t come across a particular high school, a quick check with colleagues often turns up someone else who knows it. Additionally, high schools sent a document to colleges along with the applicant’s transcript that gives information about the school, so we can see things like the difference between an applicant who took one AP at a school that offers 10 APs and another one who took one AP at a school that only offers two total.
Personally, I think the weight of extracurriculars is very overrated by the general public. Colleges like to see involvement, but it’s easy to tell when the lists of activities are padded. We do want to know what the kid is doing with her non-school time, so try to get that in there in some of the written parts of the application. We are very sensitive to a student who needs to work a retail job instead of joining a million high school clubs, but the best applicants can write about that retail job in a way that might demonstrate things like responsibility or skill-building or other insights they have gained from the experience. One or two activities that show sustained, indepth involvement are just as good as, or better, than a long list of scattershot activities.
It also really depends on the school. Selective private schools that are trying to build an ideal class of 800 are going to use different methods than a flagship state university that is trying to fill a class of 2000. Many state schools do have a flat-out formula for Rank + Test Scores = auto admission. Private selective schools don’t.
One thing that really helps is to think of in in terms of “why would they want me?” instead of “why do I deserve to get in?”. Up to this point, everything in education is about “earning the grade”: you are trying to meet or exceed a standard. At competitive schools, it’s much more like applying for a job: it’s not “Are you good enough?”, it’s “would we be excited to get you?”
I always say there are two kids colleges don’t want: the one that flunks out Freshman year, and the one that goes to class, gets solid grades, and spends every other minute in their dorm room smoking pot and playing video games. So a kid who appears to have spent every minute of their high school career doing exactly that is not an attractive candidate, however high their grades.
That said, remember the point is to match to the school that does suit you. So if what a kid wants to do with their spare time is write a novel, it’d be stupid to make them stop so that they’d have time to run cross country and join the debate team. They need to go to the school that wants the novel-writing student in any case. But if you’ve got a kid who gets solid grades and otherwise basically hangs out with friends and watches TV . . . that’s a kid that needs to have something in their life. But they need to find something that is actually interesting to them. The goal here is a kid that actually gives enough of a shit about something to put time into it, not a kid who can fake it. But, again, that’s only a big deal for selective schools. One’s life isn’t ruined if you end up at the local branch of the state school.
The role of non-academics will vary a lot by university. Large state schools may have a fairly rigid formula based primarily on GPA and SAT/ACT scores, with extra-curricular activities adding a few extra points here and there or being used to determine someone who is on the edge. Very small or extremely selective schools, however, put a lot of effort into crafting a diverse, well-baanced, interesting class, and they will try to get a very complete picture of the student. This may even get down to the level of “We need to find another tuba player.” And at schools where everyone who applies has a 4.0 and perfect test scores, extra-curricular activities can make a difference.
A good rule is that universities look for depth, commitment and leadership over having a lot of different activities. Admissions officers have a very finely tuned BS meter, and they can sniff out people who are padding their applications or participating primarily in pricey activities that require little commitment (short volunteer trips to exotic places, expensive and non-selective summer programs, etc.) They will be far more impressed with a solid commitment to a part-time job than a dozen one-off activities.
As for the schools, universities know the schools that tend to work with them fairly well. When they don’t, schools often publish information sheets with basic student demographics, classes offered, etc. Admissions officers are aware that not every school offers the same opportunities, and they will largely look at how well a student uses the resources they have availabe. If a school only offers two honors classes, they’ll look for students who are taking both of them, and they’ll understand that those students didn’t have the option to take more. In short, doing well in a very good school will help. Doing very well in a not-so-great school will also help. Doing a mediocre job in a great school, however, will count against you.
The smaller and/or more prestigious the university, the less likely they are to admit anyone solely on their grades. And conversely, they are more likely to admit solely on unique non-school accomplishments and ignore bad grades or test scores (I know someone who was admitted to MIT based on a mathematical proof he was the sole author of, despite receiving the minimum score on the Verbal section of the SAT which would ordinarily be a disqualifier for admission).
Speaking generally, no one is likely to be admitted to a top school (public or private) based solely on the “fairly decent/nothing special” grades you’ve described, with no other accomplishments, unless some really unusual circumstances are present. Like, “former Rwandan child soldier” type unusual circumstances, not “recent immigrant from Canada” type circumstances.
Based solely on decent grades from an average-to-good high school, they could expect to definitely be admitted to a secondary state university campus, in the state where they reside, or the middle tier of private universities.
I want to thank everyone for all the info and help. It’s really helped. I now know what I need to focus on.
Thanks again!