My Poor Daughter

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

My daughter, who is all of 15 years old, and in 9th grade, is severely stressed over getting into college.

The other night, we were driving to Mickey D’s to pick-up a quick and unhealthy dinner. While in the car with her, talk to turned to classes she wants and needs to take the next three years (10-12 grade).

Little explanation here: While 9th grade is considered part of high school for transcript reasons, the 9th graders are located in the junior high schools here. She will move to the high school next fall.

At any rate, we discussed what she’d like to pursue in college (marine biology). At this point, her true stress factor is revealed. She told me that she will probably need to take classes in the summer and give up band because she thinks she won’t be able to get all the requirements in for entering college. She went on for quite some time. This poor kid is stressed to the max.

So, I was kind of at a loss here. I told her the first thing she needed to do was make an appointment with her guidance counselor to help her map out her track for high school and college. While I have an overall idea of what she needs, I certainly don’t know all of it. Things have changed mightily since 1982 and colleges seem more stringent and selective now.

I can certainly appreciate and admire her drive for getting to college. She is working hard and unfortunately, will have to work even harder to get there. She has her 9th grade project this year, must pass the WASL in 10th grade, needs her PSAT of course, and her SAT. She also has to do a senior project, which actually begins the second half of her junior year. All of these (well except for the SAT and PSAT) are graduation requirements. All of this, plus her regular school work, plus she wants to get a job. I’ve already told her and my husband there will be no job if it impedes her school work.

She’s also worried that we can’t afford to send her to college. My husband and I have already told her that we will do what it takes to get her to college, even if it means selling the house.

She is so determined and I’m so proud of her. I can’t seem to lower her stress level any and am hoping her appointment with her guidance counselor will lower it some.

I need to start educating myself re: the requirements she has to achieve her goal. This starts Monday with a curriculum fair at her high school. My God, I just don’t remember it being this bad when I was her age.

2

I can relate. I’m the same age as your daughter, but I’m in tenth grade. But, I’m approaching the eleventh-grade fast and I’m beginning to worry about what I’m going to do in university. My typical parents want me to become a doctor, but I’d rather go into theatre and dramatic arts as a major in university or ditch university and go to college instead to become a crime scene investigator. But, it’s good that your daughter is so driven to take charge of her life. The appointment with her guidance counselor will help. Trust me on that.

3

Having just been through the parent-of-a-college-applicant scene myself (my daughter is a freshman at UC Davis this year), I can offer a bit of perspective:

No college sets their admission criteria so high that they can’t be met by a high school student with a normal course load. As long as she takes college-prep course in HS, she should be fine.

Colleges want students who do something with their lives besides just study. Quitting band could actually be counterproductive.

There’s plenty of financial aid out there, and they’ve even made the application process fairly easy. Some of it will undoubtedy be in the form of loans, but that’s an investment in your future that’s easy to justify. There are even loans specifcally for parents; I can’t imagine needing to do something so drastic as sell your house.

It’s not too early to take her on tours of colleges that interest her. That will help put the whole business in perspective. It will also give her the chance to ask questions of real students about how they got there, since college tour guides usually are current students.

4

Here is my totally unhelpful opinion:

Don’t continue to give her the idea that this is something she should be stressing over. In my state at least, the admission requirements for in-state students are ridiculously low–one basically has to be able to read. Not everyone who gets in can stay in, but it’s for sure that the people who can’t get in couldn’t have stayed in.

The SAT is long but embarassingly easy. Ditto the GRE, incidentally.

If she belongs in university, she will be admitted without having to bust her butt or stress for a minute. If she doesn’t belong there, then she wouldn’t be happy there.

All of that community service, extracurricular participation crap is just that–crap. Go to school, take the hardest classes in which you can get good grades, and apply to a variety of schools. Go to the best one that admits you. What the HECK is the big deal?

5

I can make it even more stress free than that. Where we’re at, in Florida, if you get an associates degree at a community college, you are guaranteed admission at any Florida state school, and many private ones, as a junior. My son is going that route. He saves tons of money, and totally bypasses the ‘will I get into college’ madness. Check and see if your state offers anything similar.

6

Maybe you should do some research on the schools and programmes she’s thinking about taking and their admission standards? Twoflower is right, admission standards aren’t as high as you’d think, though it varies from school to school and program to program (I was looking at one school and their minimum requirements for my major? Grade 12 English suggested. I’m not going to that school) If she’s already a good student, she’ll be able to get into university. If she wants to get into a more competitive school it’ll be a bit different, because you’ll be competing against a lot of people who already have more than the minimum requirements, but I don’t think that would be a big surprise to either of you. Sometimes these schools will also advertise the average grade of entering students, which will give you a little more perspective.

But really? Us students stress over this far more than we should. She should take the classes she needs to get in, work hard to get good grades, and stop stressing. If she’s college material she’ll get in.

7

I agree with everything said so far. I have seen some of the stressed-out parents and students trying for the top 0.1% of the nations schools, and acting as if the world would end if they didn’t get in. Well, I’m here to tell you that it doesn’t, and what’s far more important is what your daughter decides to do with the education she receives. To wit:

I want to Indiana U., a respectable school, but certainly not Brown, UCLA, or any of the East Coast Ivy League schools. With a BA in Biology, my first job was making Whoppers at Burger King. This was not because I went to some Mid-West state school, but because I didn’t have my act together and ignored the future. I didn’t have any plans, thus no marketable skills. By the grace of God and an inheritance, I went back to school and got a professional degree. I have since published a paper on my own, and my name appears on several other biochemistry-related papers. I work with people well known in the field. Again, this is not because of where I went to school 20 and 10 years ago, but because of the opportunities I took since then.

The other thing is that knowledge is power. Right now, your daughter is stressed out about what she doesn’t know, which is the basic requirements for getting into a college with a marine biology program. If she is willing to talk with someone who does know the requirements rather than waste her time and energy fighting her fears, she will find that she stands a much better chance of getting to where she wants to go. Now is the time to trust you and her school to prepare her for college. Once at college, she will be free to take on the responsibility of her success. And like any other long-term committment, things happen in a linear fashion, rather than all at once. She needs to concentrate on doing well this year, so that there will be a next year closer toward her goal.

I wish you both luck. I get to go through this in another two years with my daughter.

Vlad/Igor

8

Reread this. Print it out in 72-point font and plaster your refrigerator with it if you have to.

I’m currently ending my third year of college. I took a normal course load of college prep courses in highschool, finished in the top ten percent of my class, got an acceptable score on the ACT (equivalent to SAT) and had absolutely no trouble getting into college. I didn’t apply to Yale or Harvard or anything, but I did apply to several public colleges in Illinois and Indiana University. Two years of a foreign language, three years of math, three years of science, four years of English, two years of social science, I think. Maybe a few more. The graduation requirements for my highschool were similar to the admission requirements for many colleges, so it reall isn’t all that big of a jump.

As previous posters have said, community college is another way to go. Requirements for admission are usually basically nonexistant (must be a high school graduate or equivalent, usually), it’s about 10% of the cost of a university (at least here), and you can knock out the general education requirements so you can concentrate on your major wherever you end up.

I went to Indiana University for a few semesters, then changed my major and transferred out. I’ve been going to the local community college since then and will graduate with an Associate’s degree at the end of this semester. When I transfer to a 4-year university this fall, that degree will mean that all my core course requirements are fulfilled and I only have to take classes in my major.

As far as cost goes, I’m a bit more cynical about that. My parents have helped me out tremendously and I’ve had to take out loans in my name as well. Both of my parents work full-time and so we don’t qualify for need-based awards (though four years of Indiana would have been more than a year of total family income AND I have a sister who will be going to college in the next few years). I’m not of any particular nationality or ethnic group (besides “white”), so I don’t qualify for any scholarships for that characteristic. I didn’t play athletics in high school, and so on. However, there are always loans. The government seems ok with loaning me as much money as I need, and I don’t have to start paying any of it back until after graduation. The benefits of going to college outweigh the cost, even if that means you’re paying it off for years afterward.

9

If she’s that stressed out about it, maybe the first step (after the curriculum fair) should be an appointment for you with the guidance counselor at her prospective high school. That should give you a better idea of what she needs or is expected to take during the next three years. We are at almost the end of this process with my older daughter. She has narrowed her choices down to maybe five, and will soon decide. Then we get to start all over again with the younger, who is a sophomore this year. If it helps any, they have both been three-sport athletes and have been active in some other extra-curriculars along the way, and still maintained the classes and the GPA necessary for colleges to want them. The older one did give up band, but that’s because it conflicted with her sports, not because she couldn’t do that and still take the classes she needed. You don’t have to give up life to get into college.

Maybe it would be helpful if your daughter took a look at the websites of a few colleges. They might give her the minimum GPA or test score requirements or the averages for their students. They’re not as high as she thinks they are, I’d bet.

How much of this is not about college at all, but about high school? Is she maybe worried about how things will be next year, and this is the way it’s coming out? You know, kind of “What if I don’t get off to the right start, what if I pick the wrong classes?” (I know, IANAP, but sometimes my kids get way ahead of themselves like that.)

What she mostly needs to do is remember that she doesn’t have to think about all of this at once. She still has plenty of time and she can take each step as it comes.

10

I second, third, and fourth everything said about community and technical colleges. My son is a junior in high school and I was getting upset after every grading period thinking of how he was ruining his future. He’s a pretty smart kid, takes some pretty hard classes, almost never studies, and gets average grades. I though he would never get into college. I talked to the guidance counselor last week and found out that pretty much the only college he definitely can’t get into, that’s local, is University of Wisconsin, La Crosse. He could go to a few of the others in this state and one within driving distance in Minnesota. I also learned that we have a state 2 year *college * system. They let just about everyone in, smaller class sizes, same classes, a little cheaper and all credits transfer. Even if he can go to a university I like the college idea better. Why not get all the basics in a more relaxed atmosphere.

Since he wants to go into computers, but doesn’t know in what way, he’s leaning towards an associates degree in computer networking. It’s related to what he wants to do and he can get out and work at a decent paying job in 2 years while he decides what he really wants to do. I don’t know why we push kids to pick their lifelong career when they’re 16 or 17. I know so many people who made the wrong choice.

Bottom line is if a person wants to go to college there’s ways to do it no matter what happens in high school. People drop out of high school all the time and later manage to do what it takes to go to college. If she gets pretty good grades, and has some fun outside interests now, she’ll have no problem.

I hope she stop worrying and enjoy the fun side of school.

11

I agree w/all of you re: the stress thing. I guess I wasn’t clear in my OP. I’m trying to convince her that she needn’t be all that stressed.

I know there are tons of programs and loans, and we will sit down soon and start looking at schools.

Finally, I hope she chooses an in-state school, but we’ll need to check out all her options anyway.

Thanks everyone.

12

You say that you hope she chooses an in-state school. If she can study what she wants at a good in-state school I don’t see that she even needs the option of an out of state school if it will cost more.

I think parents have bought into the notion that we should pay for whatever our children want when it comes to college. There’s no reason we should be obligated to pay for room and board for a degree that can be earned while living at home. Nor should children expect us to pay for an out of state school just because they feel like living in a different state, or because it’s where their best friend is going.

Yes, kids learn things from living away at school, but it’s mostly the same things that can be learned once they have their own apartments. We’ve made it clear to our kids that we will pay for their college, but if they want to move away and earn a degree in something that’s available locally, they’re on their own for room and board. If they pick something they need to move away for we would pay for the extra costs. We can afford to send them away, but not easily.

13

Please try to convince her that she’s way ahead of schedule: panicing about colleges is for junior year, not freshman. What everyone has been saying is true: there’s no college who won’t accept a student doing the average amount of work in HS, and she’ll definately graduate with all of the needed requirements without having to take classes over the summer.

Some things she can focus on working towards now are getting good grades, getting involved in extracurriculars, and doing community service (whether its required by the school or not). She probably doesn’t have much choices as to the classes she’s taking now, but when she does, she should take the classes she’s interested in instead of trying to cram as many advanced classes as she can into her schedule. Don’t let her stay holed up in her room studying all the time; she can only study so much. Extracurriculars are just as important as grades, and she should stay in band and join some clubs that she’s interested in. If she really wants a job, she should get one over the summer. If she’s feeling this stressed right now, a job would probably be too much to handle along with her schoolwork. Another thing to do over the summer would be to get her involved with marine biology, whether it’s taking classes at a college or going on a study abroad program(although those can get kind of expensive).

But most of all, keep telling her that she’ll get into college no matter what, and chances are she’ll be happy there, and if she isn’t, she can always transfer.

14

I remember being stressed. I remember thinking that I wouldn’t be able to get into college because my course load wouldn’t allow me to take calculus.

Not only did I get accepted to an engineering school with only trig under my belt, but I was enrolled in the same top-level calculus everyone else took, including the kids who took AP calc in high school. And I did just as well or better than they did. I wish I hadn’t wasted energy worrying about that mess.

She’s worried because she doesn’t know. Once she knows, she won’t be worried so much.

15

My daughter is a pretty smart cookie. She isn’t a straight A student, but she does does get more A’s than B’s.

I’ve been telling her all the same things I’m reading here. As to out of state vs. in state colleges, I’ve already told her that we could not cover 100% if she chose to go to an out of state school. Again, we’ll need to see what our state colleges offer. I live in the Seattle area, surrounded by water, you’d think there would be a marine biology track in one our colleges. Need to look.

Now, here’s what’s led to her stress. The school system here starts hammering on these kids in the 8th grade. That’s right…8th grade. It’s all about going to college, taking the right courses, etc. They start making out their “tracks” the last part of 8th grade. So, the kid is stressed. We talked some more and she’s relaxing a little bit. Believe me, I told her that no college is going to expect kids to take more than a normal course load. I am well aware of that fact.

She just wants this so badly and is determined to succeed. I plan to help her realize that dream. She’s got drive, determination, and a good amount of just plain ol’ stubborness. She doesn’t easily let go of a goal when she sets her sights on something.

I just hate to see her get so wrapped around the axle on this. I plan on showing her some your posts.

I’m not stressed and I’m certainly not all about making sure she gets accepted to the top .01 percent of schools. As long as she’s happy, the school is accredited and in good standing, has a good program, etc. then I’m happy. Period.

16

If you are determined to assist her with finances, it’s probably best not to discuss exactly how you will come up with the money. The idea of selling the house could put a lot of guilt on her and she is already over-stressed.

Try to help her pace herself. Make out a list of what she can do (as you learn what steps to take) and then remind her that that is sufficient for now.

You are a cool parent! (Don’t hesitate to let the teachers know that your daughter is ambitious.)

17

The PSAT and SAT may be good ways to get into college, but the absolute best tests that will help you succeed once you’re in college are the AP tests. You can basically knock out your typical first semester and your basic requirements and focus on what you’d like to focus on. You get an incredibly helpful head start.

Your daughter sounds like she has the spark to do very well in high school, or any school at that rate. All it takes is dedication. Don’t let her get too bogged down in details or planning. For many colleges, letters of recommendation from teachers are required. Tell her to keep that in mind when interacting with them.

It’s great that you thought she should speak with her counselor, that’s her best bet. Remember, however, that they’re not infallible. If either of you have any doubt as to a counselor’s advice, it is not unfounded. They generally know what they’re talking about, but they don’t get their info from experience, so it can be slightly skewed.

Don’t let her worry so much! She has the will and spirit. She’ll do great!

18

Good advice, but keep in mind the AP tests cost money and if you don’t get at least a minimum required score they’re worthless. They do cost less than the equivalent college course, but it’s pretty much all or nothing. Studying is necessary.

19

The only problem I have with this is that this was my situation:

I got accepted to all three schools I had applied for. One of them was the one I really wanted to go to; the other two were okay. The one I wanted was very prestigious, offered a rigorous training in my major, and was out-of-state, but not terribly far from my parents. I received scholarships from that school and begged my parents to let me go, even though it was five hours away.

One of the other two schools was where both my parents and a good deal of my aunts and uncles had attended college. It was 45 minutes from home. There was no need for me to live so close to home as I had been taking care of myself since I was 12 in regards to food, laundry, etc. It was also not a terribly good school for the major I wanted to go into. They insisted that I go there since I had a full scholarship and THEY had gone there so it was good enough for me and why did I want to move five hours away anyway?

Long story short: I spent four years here, I hated every second of it, and I’m a year away from a degree, but I’ve dropped out because I cannot stand it here. I’m going to save money and when I return to school in a year or two, I will go to a school that I want to attend, cost be damned, and it will be rigorous in my chosen field, because I was bored silly in this university.

20

nocturne I’m not saying that every situation is the same. I’m just saying that there’s no reason to pay for an out of state school if there is an EQUALLY good opportunity locally.