Good! While it would be better to have them on board, we’ll oust Saddam without them and will then owe them nothing.
As U.S. hopes dwindled of going through Turkey for an attack on Iraq, the Bush administration took back its offer to give $15 billion in aid to Turkey in exchange for military cooperation, officials said Saturday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30108-2003Mar15.html
Good? Good?! Are you out of your ever-lovin’ mind?
In and of itself, this isn’t a disaster. If it were enough to convince Our Leader to back down, it would be a blessing, a world-class lucky break for all concerned. But it ain’t likely.
Sure, we’ll take out the Saddamites, there was never any doubt of that. But the Kurds hate the Turks and vice versa. And the Turks have made it clear they will not tolerate any chance of an independent Kurdistan. And they have quite a good army, with the very best weapons. American weapons.
No, this is not good.
May, what are you talking about?
Only terrorists believe that the Middle East isn’t a homogenous block of thought with no difference between ethnic groups! Are you a terrorist?
Is that a humorous question or a stupid one?
I’ve been up all night, sorry.
On topic - last time the US offered Aid to Turkey in exchange for selling their sould, the dough was never ponied up. From their point of view, it’s great that they don’t have to think they’re the US’s bitch any more. From the US’s point of view, it’s the downside of this pesky “democracy” business.
Thank goodness that the EU is around to act as a stabilising/bribing interest.
From your lips to the ears of Allah.
It definitely solves one political problem, but it creates another one.
The first one: Now they don’t have carte blanche to go into Iraq and oppress the Kurds, which we were, remarkably enough, going to allow them to do. Now we can tell them to suck wind, and if we had any kind of integrity, we’d do exactly that and create an independent Kurdistan. That I like.
The second one: Like elucidator said, it puts us on a collision course with Turkish goals. There’s always the possibility that they’ll come in and try anyway, and if they do things will get ugly.
And here’s my problem with the whole thing: the Turks either proved that they were exceptionally greedy (most likely the case) or that they actually listened to and heeded the will of their people and said no. Fine and dandy. But when this kicks off, they’re going to beg for us to come in so they can get a piece of the action after it’s over.
It happened in Desert Storm, and it’ll happen this time. They’ll wait until the war is started and going well, then they’ll allow us whatever we want. The realization is even now sinking in that they’re not going to get what they wanted, hence the big drop in the stock market last week and the speed in which they were moving to try to get another vote taken.
I say we tell them to bugger off when that happens.
Just another screwed up situation based on Bush’s screwed up foreign policies. If he had done this right the whole world would have been behind us. Instead even our own allies tell us to go away.
It does make me wonder what went wrong, to be honest.
In the last fifty years, no matter how bad the US has been, most countries have been pretty much with you. Woodrow Wilson left a big legacy for you to rely on.
Now it seems like, despite having the head start of 9/11/2001 which made everyone come up and say “we’re all with you America,” something happened to make everyone say “hold on a second…” and back off. I mean, for God’s sake, Bush can’t bribe nine poor countries to support a vote in the UNSC. Not getting a resolution through a Russian or a French veto is one thing, but not being able to get Guinea or Pakistan on your side?
Even Britain is starting to waver. We’re compromising in the UNSC further than the US wants, and Rumsfeld is saying “yeah, we didn’t need you anyway Tony. Thanks for staking your entire career on the line for us though.” How to win friends and influence people.
It’s true, definitely, that in military endeavours the US doesn’t need any help from anyone. But is George W just going to play with soldiers for the rest of his term or what? The administration seems to have gone actively out of its way to cut former allies loose on this one, doing itself immeasurable damage in future diplomacy.
What the hell went wrong?
A very thoughtful French op-ed, written on 9/11/2002, postulating on what went wrong.
What the hell went wrong? ~ McDuff
Well for one thing Mcduff, the Brits became effete. The resolve for courageous action that is necessary to lead in a world gone mad bit the dust when you all decided to wrap your little frenchie buns in a blanket of socialism.
** Latest Poll: Sixty-three percent of the English people believe that the United States is a greater threat to world peace than Saddam Hussain.
Than North Korea…Fifty-eight percent.
Than the bubonic plague…Seventy-two percent.
Than the devil…(Close)…Fifty-one percent.
- Listen. Hear it? Yes, that’s it!
The theme from the Twilight Zone.***
Hilarious, Milum! As fine an example of post-modernist irony as has ever been posted! So well crafted, one might actually believed you posted this drivel in earnest!
Outstanding!
I agree, but it won’t happen at this point.
Milum: “The resolve for courageous action that is necessary to lead in a world gone mad bit the dust when you all decided to wrap your little frenchie buns in a blanket of socialism.”
Milum, you are doing a spectacular job of winning the award for new poster least likely to be taken seriously on these boards.
(I gotta admit, though, you have me wondering on the subject of the Brits and their so-called frenchie buns. In all my experience on the subject Brit buns are not at all like their Gallic counterparts. And I’m not just talking Yorkshire puddings here 
).
More seriously, here is an article that might actually give you pause on the question of what constitutes “courageous”–or more important, prudent–action.
An excerpt or two:
- “An American invasion of Iraq is already being used as a recruitment tool by Al Qaeda and other groups,” a senior American counterintelligence official said. “And it is a very effective tool.”
" The surge in Qaeda recruitment efforts has been most visible in Germany, Britain, Spain, Italy and the Netherlands, the officials said.
"
Still think that Bush’s foreign policy is the be-all and end-all of effectively fighting a war on terrorism?
Um … what should G.W. Bush have done in order to have “done this right”?
Just the other night on Bill Moyer’s show he had the smartest woman in America, a certain Ms Tuchman Mathews, who I presume is descended from the late and much lamented Barbara Tuchman, who held the title previously. Connie Rice should sit humbly at her feet and take notes.
Amongst the several cogent remarks she made was this: if GeeDubya had stuck to “disarmament” and never even whispered “regime change”, he would have swept the field. Goddam Hussein will do anything to remain in power, up to and including blowing GeeDubya in Macy’s window at high noon (my hyperbole, the lady in question did not use any such language).
Hence, the evil doer is contained, impotent and devoid of threat. If he resists, the UN could move on him as a unit, or, at the very least, offer complete legitimacy to the US intent to do so.
GeeDubya screwed the pooch on this one. And he will pay. Unfortunately, so will the rest of us.
Thanks again, Justices Scalia and Rehnquist! I find it difficult to express my gratitude to persons so far out of rifle range.
Unless, of course, you think Regime change is a good thing. As the Clinton adminstration did, for example. As U.S. policy has been since 1998, for example.
He should never have said that we’d “go it alone”. He should never have tried for a second resolution. And, most important, he should never have broached the subject of Iraq without making public the legitimate proof that we have. Instead, he’s depending on stuff after the fact to buttress his case.
Even now, all the man has to do is come clean a little bit with the intel. But will he? Of course not. That makes too much sense, I guess. :rolleyes:
At this point I’m willing to concede that nothing makes much sense anymore. We’re on a course that isn’t going to change no matter what, so it really doesn’t matter what happens from here.