Here’s my dilemma - I’m in need of an SUV capable of towing a few times a year and the occasional camping trip or riding on dirt roads through the woods (not serious 4 wheeling). Most of the time it would be parked. I’m guessing under 3000 miles per year with one big exception. I’m preparing to retire and we’d like to drive cross country over a period of 6-8 weeks.
I’m in no rush to buy but have come across two vehicles that seems to fit my needs. The first is a 2016 Honda Pilot with 98,000 miles and excellent maintenance history at a dealership (according to Carfax). Asking is $15,500 The seller (used car dealer) appears to have purchased it from the original dealer There is no record of the timing belt being changed so that’s another $1000 +/-. Carfax values the car at $17,600 and call this one a “great value”.
The second is a 2017 Ford Explorer with 65,000. Also, excellent records maintained at the local dealership that has the car listed. Asking $18,500.
The current vehicle filling this role is a 2000 Explorer with a ton of minor things wrong plus an rear main seal leak. The damn V8 engine just won’t die but I certainly wouldn’t drive cross country with it. Its my third Explorer but the first one I didn’t have to have a new tranny put in.
I know this is just a coin toss and I need to go drive both but hey, what’s y’all’s humble opinion? Especially, Pilot owners.
I don’t have strong opinions, but with the prices being close (once you factor in the timing belt) I’d lean towards the Explorer for two reasons.
33k miles isn’t as big an issue as it was with cars made 20 years ago, but it’s still plenty of miles. Not an insurmountable issue, but it’s something I’d pay the difference of $1000 between the two over. Even with all the records and upkeep.
It’s unfair, but looking at possible trade and tariff wars upcoming, I’d lean towards the one that’s likely to have fewer issues getting parts IF something did go wrong. ( minor issue, but it bugs me)
All that said, everything in a quick search indicates the Pilot is the better vehicle, so if nothing does go wrong (and you are mentioning minimal use after the one big trip) so as you pointed out, it’s really a toss up better determined after you experience the drive and comforts.
My initial inclination would be to get the Honda Pilot because Japanese vehicles have been much more reliable than American-made vehicles for decades. However I have heard that American manufacturers have made great strides in recent years.
So with that in mind I looked up the two vehicles in question on Consumer Reports and found that the reliability of a 2016 Honda Pilot is 36/100, and the reliability of a 2017 Ford Explorer is 40/100. So between those two I’d probably go with the Explorer.
Neither are as reliable as Toyotas though. A 2016 Toyota 4Runner has a reliability of 75/100, and a 2017 Toyota 4Runner has a reliability of 80/100. (I have a 2015 Toyota 4Runner and I love it.)
Interesting about the reliability rates. I just now subscribed to CR. A 4Runner would be my first choice but they hold their value so well that they are out of my price range. That said there is a 2011 nearby with 104,000 for 17K. Fair service records, although no indication of oil changes after 60,000 or anything at all other than registrations for the last 5 years. I think the wife would have a problem with a car that old for, you know, reasons. Are they really that good?
I’m not a Pilot owner but have owned several Hondas. Other family members and acquaintances have owned Fords of various flavors. For my money it’s Honda all the way. (Now I drive a Kia Telluride, purchased while shopping for a Pilot.)
Maybe, but I tend to agree with @LSLGuy with respect to age. (Although I will note that CR apparently takes the age of the vehicle into account when they produce that reliability score. For example, my 2015 4Runner has a score of only 63/100 now even though it was very reliable when new. A 2011 4Runner is apparently too old for a reliability score.)
Anyway, I would be hard-pressed to buy a vehicle that old (meaning the 2011 4Runner), especially for that much money. After a certain point, things will start going wrong due to age, even if the mileage is relatively low.
A few anecdotal data points:
I had a 2004 4Runner that I kept too long in retrospect. At around 11 years old, the suspension needed work, and a repair that was supposed to cost ~$1,200 ended up costing about $3K because they found more things that needed work. Then at 15 years old they discovered major “frame rot” (i.e. full-depth corrosion on the frame welds) that was not covered by a recall like for the Tacomas and Sequoias. The frame would have cost $12K to $15K to fix or replace, which was far more than the value of the vehicle. I ended up junking it at that point.
My 2015 Toyota 4Runner required a $3,300 full steering replacement about a year ago. That has literally been the only issue I’ve had with it, but it was a big hit. The vehicle otherwise runs perfectly.
Finally, my mother has a 2010 Toyota Camry with relatively low mileage (~75K). It’s still running fine and even still feels new, but she had to put several thousand dollars into it last year.
Reading the CR reports more thoroughly for the vehicles you originally mentioned, the Pilot has a higher owner satisfaction score. But I would probably just look at both vehicles, take a test drive in each, and pick the one that you like better.
What is your absolute, no more than, without question, tax-title-and-license, out the door limit?
I would likewise go Toyota and you cannot go wrong with a 4Runner for your needs. Here’s a 2014 with 123K miles for $24K. I just pulled up a ton of Highlanders 2013 to 2016 for what you are going to pay for the Honda/Ford - many right around 100K miles. If I were in your position (and didn’t hate white cars), I’d seriously consider this one.
Yes they are expensive because they hold value but it is either pay the money now for reliability or later for repairs … and from a convenience standpoint it is always easier to not have a car fail.
I love Toyotas. They are the most bulletproof vehicles I’ve ever driven. I put over 240,000 miles on my 2004 Toyota 4Runner, and have about 160,000 miles on my current 2015 4Runner—which still feels new.
So if you can afford it, I would go with a Toyota. I will say that if the OP plans to tow anything significant, I would go with a 4Runner over a Highlander. That’s why I have one. I have an 8-foot trailer and use it whenever I need to haul something (like mulch or to take a snowblower in for repair).
Good point on the tariffs, but the Pilot is possibly more domestic than the Ford. Engine and transmission are made in America, it’s assembled in Alabama. 70% domestic parts according to one source. Ford moved a lot of production to Mexico and the Explorer may only be 65% domestic.
Honda was the red headed stepchild of the Japanese auto industry so they invested heavily on American manufacturing early on, because they had to in order to survive.
Good call, I was not aware that the Pilot of that vintage was that high a percentage!
And yeah, wherever it was originally made, I suspect that any part that isn’t salvage on an 8 year old vehicle would be coming from a tariff-targeted country anyway, so that is likely not going to be an issue.
So I’ll give a +/- zero on my second point. I’m possibly excessively worried about Trump, but we’re still in the horrible shock phase of “How could you elect THAT?” and “We’re all doomed”. Doesn’t mean we didn’t, and we aren’t, but I may also be over-estimating the impact for this particular hypothetical.
Well, someone else took that particular decision away from me by buying the Pilot. I might go look at the Explorer today but I’m not in any rush to buy something. My towing consists of moving my smallish boat/trailer around locally and glider in a trailer that could get towed several hundred miles on a trip. Both trailers with payloads are relatively light but I like having a 5000 lb. capacity just in case (of what, I don’t know). Its just as much a matter of having a bigger vehicle
as it is about towing capacity.
4Runners are good cars, but the used market is highly overinflated, you’re looking at upwards of $20,000 for a similar year and mileage. And both the Honda and Ford get quite a bit better gas mileage.
I am being very careful not to question your needs and desires, but in a recent thread, we spent a while talking about how frequent the need actually was for a pickup’s carrying capacity.
If it’s every week, or even every month (on average) that’s one thing. And if it’s like every week for three months of summer, that’s another (I’m guessing based on a boat and glider!).
But if it’s less frequent, there’s the option of saving the money (especially if you don’t need the full 5k of towing anyway) and renting / borrowing a vehicle for the more rare occasion and banking the 15+k.
I’m betting that you’ve taken this into account based on your last two lines:
But figured I’d at least mention it. Especially because you can get a bigger vehicle divorced from the towing capacity and give yourself more options.
My current daily driver is a Corolla. A couple of times a year we’ll do a road trip that may include camping, biking, kayaking (2 15’ boats on the roof) and/or grandkids. Whenever I fly my glider, there is a chance I’ll end up in a field somewhere far from the home airport. This requires that I get the trailer as close to the glider as possible in order to facilitate recovery. Its rare but it happens so AWD or 4WD is nice. We have a new trailer for the boat and I’m getting closer to full retirement so taking the boat to new areas is also on the table.I think the Explorer/Pilot size SUVs fit my needs and price range well. I don’t need or want a pickup, although crew cab types did cross my mind. I’ve been waiting for the supposed used car market correction to happen but I see no signs of that happening. I’m not in any kind of rush but if the right vehicle comes along…
I’m messing with a service called CoPilot that is supposed to assist with the purchase by using AI (or something) to contact the dealer and determine hidden costs and some other things. Its primarily a search service but we’ll see how this other part works, The site said something like “Pick the car and we’ll do the rest”. I picked one but haven’t gotten any kind of acknowledgement that I did so.
Online inquiry tells me a Ford Explorer can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Maybe sticking out the back which is okay with me. That’s my personal concern but something you might want to consider in addition to towing capacity.
I’ve got nothing against Hondas, but anecdotally we’ve owned four Fords and all have treated us extremely well. Currently I drive a Chevy, but that was because of price.
Most cars manufactured in recent years are pretty reliable. I always tell people to buy what they like.
And apologies, but I don’t think CR knows what they’re talking about when it comes to cars. I think asking owners is highly subject to all sorts of biases.