Roger that, Vestal.
That’s why, on the 15th and 30th of each month, we get from the American people a paycheck (albiet a small one – but that’s a different issue).
Terrorism - I just don’t get it.
Some interesting points here. Chief, I’m not interested in a fair fight. If I’ve got to go to war, I want to be ‘the firstest with the mostest’ as Nathan Bedford Forrest said. If someone pulls a knife on me, I’d rather have a shotgun to face him with.
As for cowardly, I think not. I’m not sure I’d have the balls to stand in a boat or anything else and wait for the explosion. What we are dealing with here are differences of culture, and mindset. Not everyone in the world holds our viewpoint on the sanctity of life.
We are looked up to in many parts of the world, but certainly not all. As the only remaining superpower, we are looked upon as global police, like it or not. And just like cops the world over, we’re welcomed if they’re in trouble, but they don’t want to see us or be intruded upon otherwise. In addition, as a superpower, our national interests, and by extension those of our allies are so globally interlocked that we have to project our presence everywhere. It’s a complex world, and we learned to our detriment twice in one century that we cannot take an isolationist stance.
The heart of the current matter to me, and I think a lot of military, is not that the attack was ‘cowardly’ or an ‘unfair’ fight. It’s that we don’t recognize it as a fight at all, in the traditional sense. If they want war, then fine; declare it, and let’s dance. There has been no formal declaration by a recognized nation-state in the traditional manner, and even though we recognize the danger of terrorism, we’re frustrated by an undeclared war, waged by an elusive foe.
My sentiment is so be it. Let’s declare open war on terrorists, of all races, creeds and causes. Shoot on sight. No trial, no legal escapes, no santuary, no mercy. If they want war, let’s give it to them, in all it’s horror.
And any nation found to be harbouring and training them, should come under the harshest sanctions, until they stop.
Thank God. One of our friends who’s in the Air Force immediately got on the horn with as many people as he could, trying to get information. I called his parents. They had just gotten word from the Navy that he wasn’t on either the casualty list or the injured list. He’s okay. No one has spoken to him yet, but we know he’s still alive.
I talked to his fiance last night as well. Man, I can’t even possibly understand what she had to go through yesterday. Her mother called her at 8:00am (she had a late class), and told her that the Cole had been in an incident. She didn’t receive word for another 12 hours that he was ok. She just paid her last installment on her wedding dress last week.
Its all just so much of a relief. But I can’t stop thinking about those sailors who DID give their lives, and THEIR family and friends. Me and my friends were the lucky ones. I want to thank everyone who had Rob in their thoughts and prayers, and those who offered their condolences and support here on the board. I truly appreciate it.
The list of the confirmed dead and missing, presumed dead has been released.
It is at http://www.cnn.com
I can’t remember the last time I’ve been so sad, and sick at heart.
I just don’t have the words to express how I feel. The tears yes, words, no.
Thank you to all those who serve.
I think we should consider ourselves extremely fortunate that our country has not sacrificed more servicemen through the recent irresponsible and (IMO) inexcusable practice of deploying the military into flammable situations with unclear objectives and no exit strategy. I cannot believe we have not yet experienced disaster in the Balkans. I am not sure the current administration, or either of the candidates, have any clear and consistent idea of what function the military is supposed to serve. That, IMO, is a tragedy which will continue to result in unnececessarily lost lives.
(If you interpret any portion of this or my other posts as showing disrespect or a lack of appreciation for the dedication and sacrifice of our servicemen, you are mistaken.)
I agree that retaliation is in order-however, we should neither announce our actions, nor attempt to justify them. JUST HIT THEM HARD! And. for those states providing a base for these dirtbags-make it clear to them, that their citizens will not get visas to the US, and that their exports to the US will be held up for 2-year “customs inspections”, etc/ They will get the message.
If this was Bin-Ladin, then we need to kill all of his followers, and continue to do so until he is without support.
I am so upset by this (I’m a Navy vet). I had to seek out a pal on campus, one of the campus police officers who is a Marine vet, because I knew he’d understand how I was feeling. My housemates are certainly shocked and sympathetic, but it’s difficult to truly understand what shipboard life is like unless you’ve been there; it’s like everyone serving aboard a ship is a shipmate forever more.
ChiefScott, my thoughts are with you and all the Norfolk Navy community–hell of a time for this to happen, with Fleet Week right around the corner.
VB, while I agree with most of your comments, I do disagree with the last one regarding any nation harbouring terrorists. Granted I have little experince in the middle east, but having lived here for the past 9 months I have learned something about the people here. Most of them are not oil rich people. The majority of the people here come from poor third world countries. They come here for the money, if you can call it that. I have meet a few of them who work all day (10 to 16 hours) in the sun (average temp 120 degrees) 6 days a week. Then they go home to there flat, usaully a one bedroom (approx 800sqft) which they share with 5 or 6 other people. Most of the money (the ones I know make about $4.00 a day)send it home to family members in their homeland. You say impose sanctions on them, the people responsible will go on driving their big luxury cars and having a feast every day. They won’t be hurt by the sanctions.
IMHO what is needed is to take action against the people who take action against us. At the same time we need to find out why they take this action because that is the root of the problem.
I can’t end this post with expressing my deep condolences for those service men and women who give of themselves everyday so that others may live. To the family members and loved ones of those who gave it all may the peace and understanding that can only come from God be with you in your time of grief.
I understand that using the word “coward” is a deliberate provocation. The way I heard it was that in some cultures, being called a “coward” is worse than being called, say, a “monster”. The media and governments use “coward” as a means of insulting the terrorists.
As far as I know, the terrorists haven’t run out into the street yelling, “Oh, yeah? Come here and call me that to my face!” But from what I’ve heard, that’s the reason why “cowards” is so often used.
Actually, I wish they would come out and say, “Come and say that to my face!” I’m sure the Chief has some friends who’d like to give the terrorists a nice present. Via “airmail”. (Maybe Chief would even like to write a nice note on the “envelope” for us.)
Yep. A nice 500 pounder or MK82 clusterbomb would do for starters.
Mr. Bear, I heartily agree. But going after the individual perpetrators is nigh unto impossible, especially when you have a government hostile to our intentions providing refuge. I’m well aware that sanctions mostly hurt the civilian populace; all you have to do is look to Iraq. The Iraqi people suffer, and yet Saddam is still in power.
I personally advocate using our intelligence resources to their fullest, and then using a surgical strike to kill the terrorists (ala Clancys’ Rainbow Six).
I found it interesting that after the FB111 raid on khadaffis’ headquarters, his terrorist rhetoric calmed right down. There is no easy answer, and I know there are points I haven’t covered, and perhaps haven’t considered.
The bottom line here is that we as a military will take lessons away from this act, and we’ll be harder to hit in the future. And again, my condolences and support go out to the families of the crew, and to the Norfolk community. All of us who are serving or have served share a life long tie to one another, regardless of branch of service. The loss hurts.
Connor, I’m glad to hear that your friend is OK. Please let him and his family know that there are a lot of people back home that care about him and his shipmates and that we appreciate the sacrifices they all make for us.
I just want to say that family members and fellow crewmates of the deceased have my condolences. I hope we find the bastards responsible for this and show them why they don’t ever mess with the United States.
Yes most certainly, ChiefScott. In fact, earlier, I wrote, “Well Qwisp, that’s their point. They don’t play by the rules. It makes us angry because they don’t share our sense of fair play.”
I do believe in honorable fighting and the warrior code.
Amen
ExTank
I’m very glad to hear your friend is ok, Connor. It’s a damn shame the same can’t be said for everybody.
I fully agree with Vestal Blue. The US is a little to soft for me in this regard.
We send our fighting men in our “national interest” in the Iraqi-Kuwait war…save Kuwait’s hind end without even exacting a discounted cost of oil for us. Kuwait as well as the other OPEC countries is helping to ruin the US who co ntributed so many dollars to defend Kuwait by helping to keep the price of oil high.
Also, Yemen is loaded with terrorists and has not been considered as safe to dock for oil as Saudi Arabia yet just recently we started refueling in Yemen again. Yes I know that terrorists have no borders but why pick one of the least safe areas to refuel? Prevention is better than cure!!
Yes, everyone deserves to stand for their cause and beliefs, but these two who supposedly stood at attention before dying for whatever the hell their cause is, were cowards. Fight for your cause, but don’t hurt and kill others and ruin families, including their own. These two men likely had parents and families who will have to live with this horror forever, probably never knowing why their sons did this.
I guess I will just never understand how stupidity and violence can solve or help anything.
My heart goes out to the families who have suffered so much loss through this act of cowardness.
I can’t express my feelings on this any more eloquently than has already been said by many on here, especially VB and Mr Bear and ChiefScott. So, I won’t try. Know I agree.
I miss you more than ever, my love. And, you’re way too close to all this over there for me to sleep peacefully while you’re gone.
<throat tight, trying not to cry, purplebear walks away with slow, sad steps>
I am very glad to hear that your friend is ok, Connor.
{{{{{{{{all military personnel}}}}}}}}