Just watch the Usual Suspects again last night. Every time I watch it, I think I’ll figure it all out, but every time, something new puzzles me. This time I got to wondering, was it just coincidence that the 5 were put in the same cell for the truck hijack at the beginning, or was that set up by Kayser Soze? What would be the chances of them all being together, but on the other hand, how was it arranged? Damn, that movie is so entertaining!
Since the five of them in the cell together was a detail that Kevin Spacey/Keyser Soze gave, and his story was a big bag of lies, how do you know they were ever in the cell together at all? The movie ends with no confirmation of any of the story - which is part of what I enjoyed. That sudden feeling of “everything you know is wrong” just added to the twist.
Remember, the timespan of the movie is the interview of Soze and the cop (sorry, forgot the name). The scenes outside the cop’s office are flashbacks/what Soze tells the cop. Soze just made up the entire sequence of events, relying on what he read from the bullitin board behind the cop’s desk (which he was facing) as verifyable facts. The rest is plain old pull-his-leg-again fiction.
In other words, in all likelyhood the initial meeting probably didn’t take place the way soze described it to the cop.
Remember that Kujan did arrest Keaton at the restaurant. My question is, if the arrests were all arranged and predetermined by Soze, why did Kujan arrest him? Did he just hear about it and tag along? Why would he be tipped off by Soze’s informant since going after Soze is his pet project.
My take is as follows (SPOILERS!!!):
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The narrative is mostly true, but the names are changed. You will notice that “Kobayashi” picked Soze/Kint up at the end of the film. I believe that the “story padding” that justified the nickname “Verbal” was all made up: the barbershop quartet in Skokie IL, all that crap. The rest of the story was pretty much true, just that certian names were changed to protect (aware or unaware) operatives of Soze.
It seems to me that Soze/Kint doesn’t really know how much the police have figured out, so it benefits him to sprinkle the story with verifiable events the presumably Kujan would know about already (the gun parts, the NY Finest Taxi story, the lineup, the dead bodyguards and jewel dealer, etc.) I believe that the scenes we see with the other thieves went materially as Kint describes them, with the exception of spur of the moment aliases for everyone who played a role that is still alive. If I may be allowed to extrapolate beyond the timeframe of the story, I believe that this is so “Redfoot” et al can be tracked down and killed before Kujan can figure out who they are. The one thing I don’t get is why Redfoot in particular wan’t killed immediately (we don’t see this, correct me if I’m wrong) so another pet theory of mine is that Redfoot is some kind of high-level operative of Soze’s, or that he’s killed and we just don’t see it.
oblong
We are given to believe that Kujan has a “hard-on” for Keaton due to some earlier encounter. Keaton is ex-law enforcement IIRC. Then this becomes the easiest part of the plan- Soze just has someone phone in a tip to Kujan that his prime target is in some fishy business. Boom.
More extrapolation: Soze’s operatives in the PD set up the lineup by tipping the PD that the group was working together. The theory would be to get them together in a cell and try to tape them revelaing the details of their association. Soze just rats on himself(as Kint) with the rest of them.
Really, the fact that so much thought can be put into the events of this movie continually amazes me, and is a tribute to the work of the screenwriter.
It does make sense that the whole arrest was a lie by Verbal. However, it is one incident that could be verified by calling the NYPD. And great point, Oblong, I forgot about Keaton being arrested in the restaurant. So, are we back to “what a coincidence” vs. “Soze set up the whole thing”?
OT: I decided that if I ever have another horse, I will name him Kayser Soze.
Verbal: “He [Soze] showed these men of will, what will really was.”
Gives me chills every time.
I also found it wonderfully ironic that the cop threatens Verbal by saying: “I’ll make sure that everyone knows the name ‘Verbal Kint’”.
Sorry. I’ve got nothing to add to the OP. I just loved that movie.
There was a deleted scene in the script where they (The Usual Suspects)kill Redfoot. Then we see the meaning of his name. He has a red boot that is sticking out of the broken window.
Did you remember Kujan’s explanation on how he knows he’s got his man? The one that ‘gets some rest’.
In the lockup, Hockney was laying down on the bench. Koboyashi tells us he was the one who stole the gun parts.
I’m starting to really like this new forum!
I just noticed in my own post above - Kevin Spacey and Keyser Soze. The same initials. I wonder if that was one more clue I missed in the beginning.
Re: Redfoot’s death - missing scene or not, am I the only one who wonders if there ever was a Redfoot? He may be a complete figment.
I’m watching it again after I get home tonight. (Of course I own a copy. How could you not?)
I always thought that bit at the end (with Kobayashi showing up as the chauffeur) was a pretty gigantic misstep - it’s just too “cute” , IMO, especially since Verbal has no reason to describe Kobayashi’s physical appearance accurately. It’s a (very minor) low point in an otherwise incredible movie.
As far as the beginning of the movie: I always assumed that this was one of the few “genuine” events in Verbal’s retelling, which is not to say that he didn’t embroider or alter the details. It would be incredibly simple for the police in Los Angeles to check and verify at least that such an investigation and arrest happened, and in fact Kujan at least has verified that Verbal is a known criminal. It’s safe for Keyser Söze to lie about things that nobody can verify; it’s not safe for him to provably lie about matters of verifiable fact, and that means that he would never, ever, do it.
“1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, Oswald was a fag.”
Also I believe the time frames super-imposed on the screen (e.g. Two weeks earlier) indicate ‘real’ events as opposed to Kint’s narrative.
Verbal’s information has, I think, several phases.
It begins much more factually, but of course incomplete in large chunks, but the initial story of the line-up, and the New York’s Finest taxi service were essentially the truth–Verbal was lying by omission, not with outright falsehoods.
The flight into total leg-pulling occurs later; the whole story gets much more elaborate than it needs to be, and Verbal runs the risk of getting caught up in it because he’s pissed. Note when Kujan is trying to intimidate him, he’s cool as cucumber until he states “I’m smarter than you.” The way his eyes narrow briefly in response.
Also note the point Kujan comes back in and demands, “what do you know about Kayser Soze?” and the explosiveness of Verbal’s initial reaction.
It’s funny. So many people refer to that film as “full of surprising twists,” etc. Am I the only person in the world who found it terribly predictable? I called every scene before it happened, and the minute that the name “Soze” was mentioned, I thought “It’s Spacey… there’s no other way.”
In truth, the only thing I enjoyed about the movie was the acting. Maybe I’d been told by too many people stuff like “Dude! You gotta see The Usual Suspects! It’s a mindbender that’ll keep you on the edge of your seat!” Because of this, it was one of the biggest disappointments I’d ever had (speaking only of movies, of course). It was only about a year later that I had to admit that the film wasn’t that bad. At least it had a solid cast.
I thought the very same thing!
Well there was New York’s finest Taxi Service, I think we agree on that. There had to be a fence for the jewels. Now, was there a Saul Berg? Redfoot’s role was to link The Usual Suspects to Kobayashi and that happened through the theft of Berg and the lack of jewels.
The question really is, how did the Suspects really get together on the job to kill Marquez for Soze? What were the events that led up to that?
Things get murky and questionable after the Taxi theft and up to the action on the boat.
Ah, but don’t forget this vital clue: the name “Verbal Kint” is an anagram for “Vibrant Elk.”
That should make things clearer.
What do you mean? I think that it just shows that KS was thinking about his chauffeur when he was describing Kobayashi. It doesn’t mean that he describes Kobayashi as being like his chauffeur, or that Kobayashi was his chauffeur, or anything else. It’s sort of like how at the end of The Wizard of Oz, we see some farmhands that look like the Cowardly Lion and the Tinman. It doesn’t mean that the farmhands were actually present in Oz.
As for the OP: do you recall that the characters actually mentioned this at the very beginning, that they knew something was fishy up because more than one suspect is never put into the same line up.
This is a whole new can of worms, anyway. When we “see” the flashbacks, are we seeing Kint’s recall or are we seeing Kujan’s imagination of the described events? To avoid tying my mind into knots, I explain Kobayashi’s appearance at the end by saying that the Kobster is Soze’s personal valet, he’s one of the few men that Soze trusts, and therefore would be perfect to act as his “counsel” for the purpose of fooling the thieves into doing his bidding.
Damn you, Cervaise - The ultimate spoiler!