Vanguard (MMORPG) - Thoughts and opinions

Cafe Society
21

Huh, I didn’t know there was a thread about this. I was thinking of starting one.

I’ve been playing since the pre-launch for those who reserved it, and I’ve been enjoying it.
I’m a level 13 halfling rogue in Woefeather. The only other MMORPG I’ve played is WoW, and I only got to level 25, so I can’t give an in-depth comparison. WoW has it’s charms but I think I like VG better. The world seems more real. I’m also having a lot more fun as a rogue in VG than I did in WoW. There’s more skill involved and I feel more capable.

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AudreyK, to each their own I guess. I look at Vanguard and see lots of “borrowing” wholesale from things like Elder Scrolls, EQ, EQ2, a bit of Guildwars and the like. It also seems exceedingly complex, like it’d be easy to get bogged down in a small aspect of the game, and certainly a “Jack of all trades” looks difficult to impossible achieve. I wonder how Sony will maintain the standard of options to the same quality that they introduced in later expansions/chapters? I’m doubtful now, but I’ll look in on it from time to time to see how it evolves. Maybe it’ll develop ok. I was skeptical about GW at first too.

Guildwars has a fascinating storyline, very good class/advancement and skill system, excellent interface system, fantastic graphics, and best of all THEY LISTEN TO THEIR PLAYERS!!! The GMs/Mods/QA people not only start polls in the GW forums to find out what the player base has to say, but they listen and follow through. I don’t mean like the lame kowtowing to warriors in EQ either. They don’t wield the nerf bat with reckelss abandon, and they don’t change things willy-nilly. They work to maintain a balanced class system that is also fun to play.

They fix bugs, they ensure that the economy stays healthy (they put in Kepkhet Marrowfeast to stop overfarming of minotaurs as an example. They also revamped the way the traders work it’s based entirely on what has been sold to them, so prices vary from day to day, it’s more supply and demand now.) and they also, on request throw in mini-events about once each month. This past Christmas, during the Wintersday festival, a lot of their Asian player base couldn’t make it due to a natural disaster, so the mods and admins personally made sure they got Wintersday gifts, to ensure they got at least a little Wintersday cheer. Gaile Gray really has the player’s backs, and has participated in, as well as starting many topics at the GWonline forums. This is where I think GuildWars excels, though WoW is really good in that they would rather lose money than let cheaters stay in the game. I think GuildWars has another edge though, in that you don’t really have to level grind, you level as you complete quests and missions. You have to work to get elite skills and gather the materials to make your class’ best armors, but that’s expected. (Also, armor is customized for the person who has it crafted, it can’t be used by anyone else except as salvage materials.) Another big edge is, there is no ninja looting in GW, because drops are assigned.

[QUOTE=guildwiki Wintersday 2006]
Wintersday Gaile and Breaded Man (Guild Wars Employees) showed up on January 1st for the 8:00 AM PST event in Kamadan. <snip> During this event, Wintersday Gaile also gave answers to some of the player’s questions. She also confirmed the development of Campaign 4.

<snip>

At one point players witnessed Breaded Man gathering the un-reachable presents in Dwayna’s grandstand area. Gaile made a post that they are planning to give those presents to accounts owned by players that live in an area struck by an earthquake, disrupting their internet access and preventing them from partaking in the event.
[/QUOTE]
The place she made the post was on the GWonline forums. Also, people really weren’t shorted presents by the “bug” where they dropped in places they could not be picked up, because 1. they were often from AFK people who didn’t move so their presents wouldn’t spawn up on the ledge 2.the presents lose their assignation after a few minutes and become fair game anyway 3. there was a special trader put up who gave presents for candy cane shards, which were abundant and very easy for anyone no matter their level/class to acquire.

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[QUOTE=Kiros]
I should note that today’s patch notes indicate that the first of those bugs was fixed today, and at least one major memory leak was also fixed in today’s patch. I am receiving the parts I need to build my computer piece by piece at the moment, so I won’t really get to playing this 'till next week, but most of my guildmates were complaining about those very two things as well. And they’re very happy to hear that they might be fixed.

Everything else you said also agrees pretty well with the people I know who are playing this a ton. They all love it, and I’m very eager to get started next week. A few of them REALLY like the diplomacy stuff, as well, by the way.
[/QUOTE]

It appears they have indeed fixed the mob disappearing bug. Unfortunately, we also enountered what seemed to be new problems. We experienced some odd issues crossing areas. Ordinarily, there would only be a slight pause as you cross from one to the other, but at least 3 times tonight the game straight-up crashed when we tried passing through an area. Our characters would change appearance when we crossed into new areas. The last time, my SO’s armor and mace (which resembles a small pumpkin on a stick) disappeared from his character and inventory for about half an hour, and rematerialized after he’d bought replacement gear. His replacement gear disappeared when his old stuff reappeared.

Game’s still fun, though.

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Being the OP, I’ve been meaning to add to this thread too. I bought Vanguard on opening day. I’ve been playing it since. It’s been fun, but not all consuming like when I first started playing EQ. I made my first characters on the Targonor server for no particular reason. I later found out that Targonor is the “unofficial oceanic” server. I’m not sure if that means what I think it means, but it did seem like a lot of the players were Asian. That’s not a bad thing in itself, but I had two worries. The first was that my play times wouldn’t mesh with the majority of the population. The second was pharming. I decided to create new characters on Gulgrethor (again, no particular reason for the choice).

[QUOTE=AudreyK]
There is an auction house system, though I haven’t used it yet, and there are general and regional vendors.

At level 11, I had 26 silver before I bought my mount, and I’ve been as frugal as reasonably possible.

I have not yet explored the crafting and diplomacy spheres of this game. Crafting in this game is far, far more complex than 1) learn recipe, 2) gather item materials, and 3) mass produce; it allows for unexpected failures and high-quality results. I’m looking forward to learning more about this.

Despite the bugs, I’m enjoying this game quite a bit. It has incredible potential. I really hope in the next few months they’re able to iron out all of the problems. It’s not a WoW-killer, but I think it can satisfy the players who want something deeper and more challenging than WoW.
[/QUOTE]
Good post AudreyK. I want to hit on some of the things in your post, which is why I chopped it up so much. I haven’t explored as much of the map as you, but I have done some of the other things.

The auction house is simple to use. It could use some better search features. It’s actually less of an auction and more just putting things up for sale for a set price. If you haven’t used it, you should. You can find better gear for less coin than from the NPC vendors.

Crafting and harvesting is also pretty good. Advancing in crafting isn’t explained very well though. I’m still not sure which of the specific skills I should be leveling. You have a limited pool of points and you can’t specialize in everything. Harvesting is fine too, but I wish they would highlight the nodes on the minimap like in WoW. The mining nodes are easy to find, but the trees are a bitch.

I think I’m starting to like the diplomacy. I didn’t care for it much with my first character in Qalia. My new character is based out of Tursh in Thestra. The diplomacy quests seem to be much more fleshed out. In fact, I got my first horse at level 10 doing a diplomacy quest, which saved me some silver and got me out exploring Thestra.

I agree with you and what a few others posted. It’s a buggy game yet, but I think it holds great potential. I’ll probably keep playing after the initial free month is over. I’m not sure for how long yet, but it’s good enough to keep me going.

If anyone is interested in some minor questing or something, maybe we should try to get together on one server or something? Any interest?

The name kept me from even looking into it. Although I’ve been in big raid guilds in the past, I’m now at a point in my (real) life where I don’t want to spend the kind of time that takes gaming. The “Wars” part of the name implied PvP. I don’t mind PvP in WoW, but it’s the only game where that’s been true. I’m mostly a PvE kind of player. The name implied to me that it was about guild PvP, which had absolutely no appeal what so ever.

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[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
The name kept me from even looking into it. Although I’ve been in big raid guilds in the past, I’m now at a point in my (real) life where I don’t want to spend the kind of time that takes gaming. The “Wars” part of the name implied PvP. I don’t mind PvP in WoW, but it’s the only game where that’s been true. I’m mostly a PvE kind of player. The name implied to me that it was about guild PvP, which had absolutely no appeal what so ever.
[/QUOTE]

If you read my entire posts, you will see that it isn’t only PvP. **It is also PvE, with a lot of content for players who don’t want/have no time to be competitive. ** And, people who make a PvE character can choose to do some PvP in arena matches. There is Guild vs. Guild competition as well, which PvE characters can engage in if they so choose. As I said, I play it for the storyline, I don’t do GvG, or PvP. (Excepting the snowball fights that were part of the Wintersday event a while ago.) In fact, if you don’t play at least one PvE character you miss out on a lot. The storyline is excellent, (and only available to Roleplaying/PvE characters) and you can “unlock” skills (spells) for any PvP characters (so they don’t have to bootstrap their way up to having any skills of worth) you make, with your PvE character. This includes elite skills.

ETA: second to last sentence with no asides “The storyline is excellent, and you can “unlock” skills for any PvP characters you make, with your PvE character.” :o

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Adding: DO NOT READ THROUGH THE STORYLINES IF YOU THINK YOU MIGHT TRY THE GAME! People in GW don’t spoil the plot for newbies, they are pretty good about not doing so. It’s much, much better to get the plot as you go along, doing quests and missions. (Though, there were times when we’d get stuck on a mission and have to look up how to accomplish the bonus part, or advice on tricky areas. We did that while we were on the mission though.)

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[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
If you read my entire posts, you will see that it isn’t only PvP.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I read your link. I never said that my assumption from the name was correct. I’m just saying why I never gave it a chance.

Now I would still hesitate for two reasons. The Wiki article mentioned a Magic-like setup for combat. Magic has a highly repulsive effect on me. (Buy more cards and you too can have a bigger in game penis! Buy! Buy! Buy!) I also really wonder how that works when you get aggroed unexpectedly. Maybe you could explain that a little? The second reason is that I don’t like joining MMORPG’s so long after launch.

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Basically everything other than the main town(s) in GuildWars is instanced, isn’t it? Pretty sure I heard that somewhere.

If it’s true, it sort of confirms my feeling that GuildWars is more the next step along from Diablo than it is from Everquest.

If not… well, my friends are still all playing VG, and that’s 90% of the fun. :wink:

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[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
Oh, I read your link. I never said that my assumption from the name was correct. I’m just saying why I never gave it a chance.

Now I would still hesitate for two reasons. The Wiki article mentioned a Magic-like setup for combat. Magic has a highly repulsive effect on me. (Buy more cards and you too can have a bigger in game penis! Buy! Buy! Buy!) I also really wonder how that works when you get aggroed unexpectedly. Maybe you could explain that a little? The second reason is that I don’t like joining MMORPG’s so long after launch.
[/QUOTE]

It’s not quite like that with skills. Yes, they can cost money (which isn’t exceptionally hard to get, even for casual players) but they can also be acquired through quests. Not all skills are questable, but a large amount are, and it’s well worth it to quest for them. (Not only do you get added tidbits thrown into the storyline, but you can save money.) Elite skills can only be captured, but still aren’t impossible to do. I’ve got a healthy chunk of elite skills on my monk,***** that were won via groups that had 3 players, and 5 NPC henchmen in it. Not to say it was easy peasy, but if you are alert and clever (and use teamwork) you can manage quite nicely. What I’m trying to say is, really there isn’t a lot of strutting and bragging about what skills you have in GW because anyone, uber guild member, or casual player can manage to get them, including elite skills. (There is some bragging over unique weapon drops, which again even casual players can get, and some bragging via “prestige” armor. Thing is, the “prestige” armor has the exact same stats as the more common armor counterparts, it just has a different look. So, if you don’t want to bother, or are like me and prefer the Star Pattern Ascetic armor, (It has the most energy boost, so is optimal for a healer.) it’s no loss really, other than bragging rights for those who are into that. Basically they go “I am using blah blah blah for a weapon, and blah blah blah for amor”, and others go “Ewww, nasty dye job, my armor’s prettier!” or “Nice dye job, what’d you mix?” And “Congratulations on all the hard work!” then move on.)

There really isn’t unexpected aggro, you have a map with indicators showing where enemies are. If all your group members aren’t ready for combat, you as a group don’t proceed. (Though it doesn’t take long for energy/hps to regen.) This game is pretty casual gamer friendly. (If you only have a couple of hours to play, you can still get a quest or two done, or even a mission or two depending.) On the rare occaision you do get jumped, the party usually prevails, but if your whole party dies they spawn at a rez shrine. (More often than not the party prevails, maybe with a casaulty or two. In that case they’d be rezzed if they weren’t already during combat, and the party would carry on.) The worst that happens is you get DP, but you can easily counter that as you get exp while doing the mission or quest. There are no corpse runs in GW. Also, level 20 is as high as GW goes. After level 20, you can still “ding” but it’s skill points, which you need to help purchase skills/signets of capture. (That skill lets you capture an elite skill from your primary or current secondary profession when you slay a boss.) Since everyone can get elite skills, the focus turns to how the person functions as a player. That is, what skills they loaded up before going adventuring, and how/when they use them in combat.
***** All my Prophecies monk ones IIRC, and most of my Factions monk ones as well. (I’ve not taken my monk to Elona yet, I want to master the Factions missions before moving her on to Nightfall, she’s a Prophecies character and I’m a casual gamer.) Not to mention the various secondary class elites I’ve capped. You can change your secondary profession once you reach a certain point in the game, this varies per expansion.

ETA: Yes, Kiros, the zones outside towns and outposts are instanced. This is good, because it means the zone you are questing in won’t be overcrowded while you are in it, and the boss you need to slay will always be up. :wink:

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[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
<snip>
ETA: Yes, Kiros, the zones outside towns and outposts are instanced. This is good, because it means the zone you are questing in won’t be overcrowded while you are in it, and the boss you need to slay will always be up. :wink:
[/QUOTE]

I wasn’t entirely accurate in this statement. If you are on a quest or mission, then the boss you need will always be up. If you are after an elite, the boss sometimes isn’t up, but zoning into a town and back out will often fix this. Also, some bosses are not static spawns.

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[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
ETA: Yes, Kiros, the zones outside towns and outposts are instanced. This is good, because it means the zone you are questing in won’t be overcrowded while you are in it, and the boss you need to slay will always be up. :wink:
[/QUOTE]

See, from my point of view that’s a really bad thing, because instead of a virtual world, we have… a game where we can summon little pockets of virtual real estate to go about our own little business in. I know all the arguments for instanced content, but I just don’t want quite THAT much of it in my MMO games. (Of course, I thought WoW had too much, too.) One of the most important things for me is being in that virtual world.

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[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
The auction house is simple to use. It could use some better search features. It’s actually less of an auction and more just putting things up for sale for a set price. If you haven’t used it, you should. You can find better gear for less coin than from the NPC vendors.
[/QUOTE]

Sounds a bit like WoW’s AH. I came from FFXI, where the AH listed everything that was ever sold, and when I went to WoW, I really missed 1) seeing pretty much everything in the game, and 2) having a price history. Some days it seems the only thing WoW’s AH is good for is unloading stuff for more money than they sell for to NPCs.

I’ve been relying on mob drops for armor, but yeah, it’s long past time I started checking the AH for better gear. I tend to be an armor whore, though, and I REALLY like planning out what gear I want to wear at each level, so that could be the way to madness.

[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
Crafting and harvesting is also pretty good. Advancing in crafting isn’t explained very well though. I’m still not sure which of the specific skills I should be leveling. You have a limited pool of points and you can’t specialize in everything. Harvesting is fine too, but I wish they would highlight the nodes on the minimap like in WoW. The mining nodes are easy to find, but the trees are a bitch.
[/QUOTE]

I kind of wish so too, for the times I want to quickly run out and harvest, but I think for consistency’s sake you’d have to put other things on the minmap, and that would just make the game too easy.

[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
I’ll probably keep playing after the initial free month is over. I’m not sure for how long yet, but it’s good enough to keep me going.
[/QUOTE]

I’ll probably hang around a few months, to see if the game improves and stabilizes. While I like playing this so far and enjoy its newness, I’m not going to commit myself to seeing the game through to its end. If it looks like Vanguard won’t ever really get it together, I’ll quit.

[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
If anyone is interested in some minor questing or something, maybe we should try to get together on one server or something? Any interest?
[/QUOTE]

My Vanguard time is limited and I duo with my SO, but I’m on Thunderaxe server, as Marwyn.

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[QUOTE=RogueRacer]
The Wiki article mentioned a Magic-like setup for combat. Magic has a highly repulsive effect on me. (Buy more cards and you too can have a bigger in game penis! Buy! Buy! Buy!) I also really wonder how that works when you get aggroed unexpectedly. Maybe you could explain that a little? The second reason is that I don’t like joining MMORPG’s so long after launch.
[/QUOTE]

A little more on this, since it occured to me that I can show a little more of what I mean. The common player (if they have ranger, elementalist, or warrior as their primary profession) can get several of the “moves” or “spells” (skill) shown in this cinematic. The exceptions are when the elementalist actually hits monsters with her staff (staffs shoot varying bolts of energy) and when the warrior throws the monster off the bridge. There are actual game skills,sprint, double shot, gladiator’s defense, distracting shot and meteor shower. Though when executed in game they don’t look like in the CGI cinematic, and player warriors only get to use 1 weapon. Elementalists, necromancers, mesmers and sometimes paragons, do float up into the air when they cast though.

Here is a video showing a warrior in combat. As a skill is used the icon will pulsate. Warrior skills don’t necessarily use energy (mana) some use adrenaline. Warriors don’t have a lot of energy, but build up adrenaline as they fight. The two icons on the right that are dim are adrenal skills, you will watch them light up as the warrior fights. (He’s using an axe, and axe skills. Axes don’t do as much damage per swing, but they critical the most.) The icon on the left is a stance, Frenzy. I’m surprised to see someone using it. It makes you attack 33% faster for 8 seconds, but you take double damage for doing so. Flurry is much better, you do 25% less damage, but attack 33% faster for five seconds, with a five second recharge. He’s in one of the lower level areas, and I’d say he’s pretty new to the game I’d say. He’s slow to get new targets. (You can get new targets lightening fast in GuildWars.)

Here is a video showing a ritualist functioning in a party. (With the henchmen, Lo Sha, Eve, Devona, Aidan, and Cynn. You’ll recognize Devona, Aidan and Cynn from the CGI cinematic, and Eve is a Prophechies box art cover girl. Note that Cynn is very fond of fire, heh. Also, Devona uses a hammer as a henchman.) Ritualists are casters who call up various spirits that either attack, debuff, or buff. They also have some nasty lightening and hex skills. At the beginning the enemy spirit is dead before his cast is done so he moves on, interrupting his skill. The green translucent thing in chains is a ritualist spirit. I can’t make out what spirit exactly, but it’s a buff spirit, look up to the upper left hand corner and you will see the buff there. (That is the traditional spot most players have buffs appear.) Might be Shelter. He has the elite skill Attuned Was Songkai loaded.

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[QUOTE=Zabali_Clawbane]
There are actual game skills,sprint, double shot, gladiator’s defense, distracting shot and meteor shower.
[/QUOTE]

There is an error here. I don’t know why I call that skill meteor shower, I have it on my baby elementalist. It’s Fire Storm. (Questable skill, you can get it in the newbie area, Pre-Searing Ascalon, part of the Prophecies chapter.) :smack:

35

Is there any class that would be comparable to City of Hero’s Controller class?

The Wikipedia mentions an Inquisitor as a “defensive psionic” class (which sounds like it might be the closest), but also says that it’s not in the game. Is there any way to speculate when the class will go public, and what sort of powers it would have?