Vegetarian boxed lunch is a LIE!

The BBQ Pit
141

I didn’t interpret it as being preachy on the side of vegetarianism; i interpreted it as being as preachy asshole against one particular vegetarian’s diet choice. This is the point i was trying to make: we all live with certain contradictions in our lives, and preaching to people about their diet choices–whether pro or con vegetarianism–is generally the sign of a wanker.

And it’s a bit of a self-serving stretch trying to shift moral responsibility for veal calves to vegetarians who choose to drink milk. Sure, veal is, to a certain extent, a by-product of the dairy industry. However, if there were no demand for the veal itself, then those calves would not be raised the way they are.

142

If our OP is correct, yes.

143

And where does THIS fit into the vegetarian/vegan world?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=198659

I’m a vegetarian. I tell people this, and explain that I don’t eat any flesh food, but eggs and dairy are okay. If you don’t ask exactly for what you want, don’t blame other people for not knowing it.

144

Actually it was free, except it cost me my lunch. I had to sit through a sales meeting with a growling stomach when I could have been at my desk eating my Schlotskys sandwich and surfing the net. But that wasn’t the point. I never asked anyone to read my mind. I told my co-worker every time for the last 10 free meals that I don’t eat eggs. They KNOW my diet needs. There was no mind reading.

And I did accept responsibility. You would know that if you REALLY read the thread.

It’s 6655321 in the book - the name intended by the creator of the character and the story that has the meaningful ending where Alex learns his lesson. 655321 is the Alex that ended up, in the first American novel version and thus the Kubrick Movie, where he started, a cold hearted murderer. So in fact, you could say that my name Prisoner6655321 is named after a reformed Alex, because it is the book that I have chosen to name myself after, not the movie.

145

Having worked on a small, family owned, non-corporate ‘organic’ type dairy farm for three years, I can tell you that it’s not the fact that veal calves are fed milk that makes a dairy farm contribute ‘to the veal industry’.

Reality is that in order to keep cows producing milk, those cows have to keep having calves. Those calves will either be male or female. Of the female calves, some or most are kept to renew the herd. Most of the time none of the males are kept because the dairy farmer will use artificial insemination to ensure a good gene distribution. Those calves that are auctioned off or sold have to go somewhere, and though some of the females could be picked up by other dairy farms, you can be almost certain that the males will be sold for veal or castrated, raised as steers and turned into beef.

146

I have a mini-sampling here. At my job there are approximately 15 workers. Four identify themselves as vegetarian (one doesn’t like eggs, but eats them if she can’t taste them, the others have no problem with lactose products), one is vegan (and all that implies - nothing related to animal products, such as gelatin, dairy, honey, whey, meat, etc), and one is almost vegetarian (meaning that he eats meat occasionally, so doens’t identify himself as such). We often have birthday parties (cake or pie), and unfortunately, this usually means that the vegan is left out, but she doesn’t complain, just gets something of her own to eat.

We just had her birthday party and they got some vegan cookies for her. There’s never a problem there - she realizes that a lot of the time when we have desserts they aren’t going to be edible for her (and yes, I know it’s possible to get some vegan ones, but frankly, the ones I’ve had haven’t been that good and besides that, it’s up to the birthday girl/boy to pick their dessert, and we get a discount at the store next door, which doesn’t really do vegan stuff, so don’t go off on me about that).

I think that in a sense, some people are being too hard on the OP. Yes, it was idiotic to think that a vegetarian meal should be made vegan (a lot of vegetarians needs that protein from the eggs, or like mayo on their sandwiches), and to go off on the people at the deli (in the thread, not in person) because it should be vegan. But honestly, it seems it was the co-worker’s fault. The co-worker was told several times that prisoner didn’t eat eggs, yet failed to specify, and thus the food was inedible.

Just because prisoner is complaining here about it doesn’t mean that he is a militant vegan/vegetarian. None of us have any idea what he’s like in person and how he acts. The Pit is for fuming and flaming, and that’s what he’s doing. His arguments aren’t the most coherent, but still, I think a lot of people are assuming that simply because he’s complaining, that must mean he’s an ass in real life.

And to continue with the tofu hijack - I don’t usually press my tofu. I buy the extra firm, cut it in cubes, throw it in the stir fry and it browns a bit. It can be a little slimy, but I hate the tofu they usually have in chinese restaurants, where it’s all fried and caky. Btw, I’ve found it’s really good if cooked with balsamic vinegar, or sherry, or red wine, or soy sauce.

147

Heh, what the fuck ever… I was poking fun at my own eating habits (or relative lack thereof) and pointing out that it doesn’t make any sense at all for the op to go on about eggs being the moral equivalent of eating a pre-chicken but ignore (or not recognise) the moral problems inherent in drinking milk. Eat eggs, don’t… I don’t care… I will however point out that it’s kinda stupid to tell people that you don’t eat eggs because ‘it’s sorta like killing’ because they’re ‘pre-chickens’ but readily drink milk which promotes the production of veal calves. I mean if you don’t eat eggs because they creep you out, you don’t like them, don’t eat ANY animal products or think they’re unhealthy… fine… all perfectly sound reasons in my book. BTW the arguement against milk regarding veal production is hardly my own, it’s the same one you’ll hear many vegans espouse and the logic IS pretty solid. I just don’t happen to see anything bad about it, but I would think that somebody who won’t even eat an egg because it’s ‘sorta like killing’ would have a MAJOR problem with the whole veal thing. All in all it was just another aspect of the op that made absolutely NO logical sense (along the same vein as asking for a vegetarian meal, getting one… then complaining about it)that I wanted to point out.

In short I was being a preachy asshole about inconsistancy and sloppy thinking… not about anybody’s dietary choices.

148

Oh! And one other thing… if there was no demand for veal, just what do you think would happen to all those little baby steers? We’re talking millions here. Well, sure they might not get made into veal… somebody would probably buy them and let them live a few months more and slaughter them for regular beef. Eliminate all demand for beef? What would we do with all of those steers? Create some kind of cattle sanctuary where boy cows live their content little lives in a happy green pasture until they expire from old age? Or make them into Dog food? Fertilizer? Leather? Suggesting that eliminating the demand for veal would magically remove any moral problems with the dairy industry and hence shift the blame for those baby cow deaths entirely and directly onto those damnable veal eaters is ludicrous.

149

No way! I’m a vegetarian, and when I tell people that, most of them assume I eat dairy and eggs. Then, there are those people, like my boyfriend’s parents, who assume vegetarians eat fish and have to be told that I don’t eat anything that was once an animal. Those people who know what a vegan is will ask if I’m a vegan or “just a vegetarian.”

Just have to add…I wouldn’t be too happy if my “vegetarian” meal turned out to be “vegan.” But, then again, I assume that deli workers aren’t that concerned about getting one meal perfect in their busy days, so if I was that worried about it I’d make my own lunch or at least go to the deli and watch them make my meal.

Heather

150

I never apportioned blame anywhere. I was criticizing you for shifting the blame away from meat-eaters and onto the shoulders of vegetarians who drink milk, which is exactly what you were doing.

151

Few cheeses list rennet as an ingredient, but I thought when a label listed “enzymes” as an ingredient (without a qualifier, as in “plant enzymes”), it usually meant rennet. Is that incorrect?

Of the cheeses in my refrigerator, two (Swiss and Mozarella) have enzymes, two (cottage cheese and goat cheese) do not.

It doesn’t have to be that much of an aggravation, if you could assume that most hard cheeses (the kind you slice and put on a sandwhich) have rennet and the soft cheeses (the kind you spread or eat with a spoon) don’t.

Not really. Eggs lurk in all sorts of sauces, baked goods, confections &c. Most people don’t know all the things that might have eggs in them and really don’t care. If it’s important to you, you might want to put some effort into learning.

152

I wasn’t shifting ‘blame’ anywhere… as it is there is enough to go around. Yep, meat eaters contribute to veal production. So do dairy consumers. One contributes to demand, the other contributes to supply. Doesn’t change any of my arguments even a little bit.

153

But why should they have to prepare it according to the strictest possible standard? I’m a vegetarian, and I like eggs and dairy. I would be far more likely to purchase said vegetarian lunch if it wasn’t prepared vegan.

It seems to be that your logic stands as thus:

a) Some vegetarians are vegan.
b) Vegans don’t eat dairy or eggs.
c) Therefore, to please everyone, nothing vegetarian should be made with dairy or eggs.

It would make just as little sense to say:

a) Some people are vegetarians.
b) Vegetarians don’t eat meat.
c) Therefore, to please everyone, nothing should be made for human consumption with meat.

154

http://www.cleanse.net/mucoid_plaque.HTM

To each their own.

Fasting has been used throughout history as a form of detoxification in eastern medicine. Just because modern, western medicine doesn’t recognize it as legitimate, doesn’t make it so.

This isn’t great debates anyway, I’ve done detoxification programs and noticed the difference in my body. Good enough for me.

155

Ai-yah, it went over my head.

If I may offer an uncritical word to prisoner6655321: cracking good username.

Repeat after me, everybody–

“Some pischa for the plenny, skorry-- Some dobby komtick kreb and mashy kartoffel, mappied with maslo and jammiwam, along with a sammy chasha of sladky chai. But slooshy hard, and pony well: No scoteena, or plott of any kind. Moloko is mounchy, and beecall’s polezny, too-- but my soviet has an especial shilarny, so viddy well my rot, you rabbity chelloveck: If you sloochat to miss my chumbled slovos, and prod for me any grazhny eggiweg, I’ll become a bezoomy bratchny, creeching and crarcking about what a zammechat gloopy sod you are, and, owing to what a oozhassny nadmenny molodoy moodge is me, don’t expect any appy-polly-logies, afterward.”

156

This does seem to be the (alleged) logic of the more militant wing of the vegetarian population…

157

Fair enough. Although now I’m wondering why your rant was directed at the deli worker, rather than your co-worker.

**

And I never accused you of shirking responsibility. You would know that if you REALLY read my post.

**

Jesus fucking christ; I thought I was the Nitpick Queen. I’m gonna have to surrender my crown.

:::steps down::: The Queen is dead; long live the King. Huzzah!

158

Fair enough. Although now I’m wondering why your rant was directed at the deli worker, rather than your co-worker.

**

And I never accused you of shirking responsibility. You would know that if you REALLY read my post.

**

Jesus fucking christ; I thought I was the Nitpick Queen. I’m gonna have to surrender my crown.

:::steps down::: The Queen is dead; long live the King. Huzzah!

159

Sorry; it didn’t look like the first one had gone through. Damn you hamsters!

160

Only if it is poched. Those tiny yolks get hard so quickly when you boil them and I really like dipping my toast in runny yolk. Once the yolk takes solid form, breakfast is ruined.