I think I might be able to reach a little further.
Clearly, Vengeance Demons have some form of temporal control. They can alter events in the past to change the present, as was shown in Anya’s first appearance. Anya, as we saw last episode, is one of the oldest and most experienced Vengeance Demons. When her amulet was destroyed in the alterna-Buffyverse, a tremendous amount of harm and mayham was undone. D’Hofryn, Halfrek, and the other vengeance demons have to bust their asses, going back in time and setting wrong what’s gone right. Sort of Quantum Leap meets Charlie’s Angels, but evil. The last wish, which involves alternate realities and all sorts of paradoxes with all the other work they’re doing is too much of a mess to sort out, and by this point they’re pretty pissed at Anya and aren’t interested in giving her her power center back, so she remains a powerless mortal.
While I’m here, I’ve got some thoughts on the revelation that vengeance demons have sould. Apparently, vengeance demons all start out as mortals. In the process of becoming demons, they sell their souls to D’Hofryn. D’Hofryn apparently keeps them. Maybe he uses them as doilies, or trades them with his friends like Pokemon cards. When he killed Halfrek, he incinerated both her body and her soul. They just didn’t happen to be in the same place at the time.
True, Buffy, Xander and Willow don’t know that. But D’Hoffryn and Anya certainly do. Yet, he was the one that said that reversing one minor slaughter was a major thing. Neither he nor she brought up the amulet as a way to undo her actions. Personally, I think it would have been a great ending for Anya to have destroyed her own power center in order to bring back the frat boys. Only slightly weaker than agreeing to let the boss kill her (which is, after all, what she thought she was agreeing to).
Just imagine the look on D’Hoffryn’s face when she did that right in front of him. He could still have a cool menacing speech, but Halfrek would still be around to interact with William/Spike.
By the way, Halfrek was a vengeance demon at the time of Spike’s vamping. In one of the recent episodes, Anyanka and Halfrek referred to things they’d done together in the Crimean War. Since that war ended in 1856, and Spike once said he was 126 years old, she was ‘on the job’ before William was born. I’m hoping that they’ll reveal that Halfrek assumed the guise of Cecily as part of someone’s vengeance. How that came about would be a great bit of the mystery that is the Platinum Vampire.
On the other hand, I’ll accept the rationalization that Giles source was wrong when it said destroying the amulet would undo all her wishes.
** Yeah…that’s an interesting coincidence. I really doubt that it’s planned, though. FX sets up their Buffy schedule months in advance, so I don’t think they have any idea of what episodes any of the new shows will reference.
I totally agree. The Whistler was a very intriguing character & I would’ve liked to have seen more of him. I think he was originally going to be part of Angel: the Series. He was going to play his mysterious sidekick–ala Doyle. I’m not exactly sure why they didn’t go with the Whistler–maybe the actor wasn’t available. The actor who played Doyle does bear a striking resemblence to the Whistler–so maybe they were thinking of having him play the Whistler.
Anyone know if there’s any truth to the rumors that the guy who played Doyle was so miserable to work with, that he was killed off just to get rid of him? 'Tis a shame…I really liked Doyle. But, it worked out pretty well in the end. We got Wesley back…and his character’s growth & development has been utterly fantastic to watch!
Actually, in “Fool for Love”, it was revealed that Spike was vamped in 1880, and William seems to have been about in his early twenties at the time. Which would have put him at about 140 or so, give or take a couple of years, at the time of the Great Dorm-room Willow fiasco. Why somebody who’s immortal would feel the need to lie about his age is beyond me.
Spike’s age has been a running continuity flaw throughout the series. In “School Hard”, Giles, after a bit of research, puts Spike’s age at “Barely two hundred”, so, figure high 190’s to 205. Then, in “The Initiative”, he tells Willow, “I’m only a hundred and twenty-six”. Already covered “Fool for Love”.
This is not something I think about much, at least not while I’m watching scenes in which James Marsters isn’t wearing a shirt. :)~
Ok, I found a Spike/Angel/Giles site. I haven’t read most of it, just enough to know that it wasn’t written by some 14 year old girl (or boy).
I haven’t read all the stories on The Giles Slash archive, just the The Paving Stone Series, which is pretty good…even believable! (Well, as believable as Spike/Giles fic can be.)
I think we can safely discount Giles’s info in “School Hard.” That number probably came from the crazy council lady who wrote the Spike thesis.
I was going to argue that, when he told Willow he was “only 126,” he wasn’t including his human lifespan in the total. It might be one of those vampire things. Besides, William couldn’t do the bitey thing (well, maybe he did, but he didn’t look like that kind of guy to me) so why should William’s years count when Spike was trying to puzzle through the big hurt?
So that was what I was going to argue, but then I took a second for a little mental subtraction and realized that counting vampire lifespan, he’d only be 120 when he got his bleachy head chipped. So now he’s making himself six years older which would make a little sense–maybe Big Bad’s trying to make himself seem bigger and badder by adding a few years into the “survived” category. But six is kind of a paltry number when you’re playing that game.
And then I start trying to make the numbers work by adding in his human age, which I peg at 28-30 (I mean, sure JM looks a lot younger than he really is, but let’s not push it.) And when I try to make those figures reconcile, my head hurts and I want a drink.
What was that line my other favorite show said I should just repeat to myself? Ah, yes: “It’s just a show. I should really just relax.” Much better.
P.S. Way to go, plg. Here I was just about to go to bed, and now I have all this Giles/Spike slash all over my monitor and now I’m gonna have to read it. Oh, the things you Dopers put me through!
Of course, if you’re in the mood for violating the no-crossover rule, there’s…
Spike/Fred.
No, really, if Spillow isn’t going to be a happenin’ thing, why not Sped?
There are a few Spike/Fred fics out there. I don’t read them though, cuz until this point I didn’t watch Angel, so I know nothing about the character of Fred. (Plus, I stick with Spuffy or slash)
I found one Spike/Riley fix, (not on purpose!) and I didn’t read it. I have a pretty open mind with most fanfic, but that, that was just crossing a line that shoudl have never, ever been crossed.
