Vista. Well. It doesn't suck.

In My Humble Opinion
81

[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
I don’t know what machine you were using or what OS; I didn’t have a high regard for pre-OS X systems, and the initial release of OS X was slower than a hobbled snail, but the last few verisions have been pretty seamless and handle power management and startup/shutdown much better than any Microsoft OS I’ve used (and I’ve used them all from Windows 2 through XP).

You can purchase a multi-button mouse; OS X supports pretty much any function you like in a USB mouse. I use a Logitech trackball on my PowerBook and it works fine. I have to agree that Apple’s One Button To Rule Them All approach is pretty stupid.
[/quote]

I don’t know what exactly it was, but it was new 1 1/2 years ago.

[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]

I can’t imagine anything that you’re doing with a web browser that would be so dramatically different between Windows and Mac that it would make such a difference. There are a few things that irritate me about Safari, but they’re beyond basic web browsing activities.
[/quote]

I can’t remember exactly what was slow since it was a while ago, but I remember being frustrated at the slowness of it.

82

[QUOTE=Number]
That won’t be a problem for this version of Office at least. The new xml-based file formats have an x on the end of the extension – .docx, .xlsx, etc.
[/QUOTE]
But are they going to update the XML file formats internally and not tell anyone, and then suddenly your Office 2007 won’t know what to do with a .docx file from Office 2010?

MS should just bite the bullet and include the ability to write and read Open Document Format files. :slight_smile:

83

I’m always amazed at the way these threads bog down. Personally, I have a laptop. It’s one of the new MacBooks with the Intel Core2Duo chip and related hardware. It’s nice because it came with several things I wanted, a few I don’t need (the built-in webcam, for instance and a ton of software), is light, powerful, and I can run WinXP in either a VM (handy for some of my software that I want or need to use) or dual-boot it or both. When Leopard comes out, I will probably start doing both, installing my copy of WinXP 64 on it for the dual-boot (assuming Boot Camp will support it by then.) Heck, the Unix underpinnings of OS X even gives me the flexibility to run Unix-only programs like NMR Pipe. If I ever get that free copy of Solaris 10 I sent away for, I’m even going to put that in a VM with Parallels and give that a shot.

What an Apple-made computer does well for my laptop needs, my desktop will always be a PC. I might finally start running Linux instead of WinXP, but probably not anytime soon. I build my own desktop, upgrade when I want and how I want, and don’t have any of these problems people keep complaining about. I fix my own problems with my desktop, be them software or hardware. However, if I have a hardware issue with any laptop, I can’t fix it myself. If the screen cracks or the motherboard gets fried or anything else, I can’t do anything about it but send it in.

I don’t really see all the differences that people get up in arms about. Some things annoy me about Windows, some things annoy me about OS X. I miss the Windows Start Menu in OS X (and putting the Applications folder on the right side of the dock isn’t really the same), and the way OS X handles windows has always driven me nuts. Having to spend an hour setting various preferences in Windows every time I reinstall (and it’s probably about time I do a format and reinstall, now that I think about it), reinstalling programs to reset DLLs after said reinstall, and the larger amount of updating overall (patches for Windows, definitions for anti-spyware and anti-virus and so on.)

84

Okay, let me just say that I boot both XP and Mac OS X Tiger.

For me XP is only around for games and the odd program I need. Otherwise I’m totally at home on a Mac. There is some problem, I suppose with lack of configurability in some cases, but on the other hand, I still prefer it to XP. This is coming from a guy who stuck with windows since 3.1 I loved XP when it came out, but as time passed, it became worse with spyware etc. Generally I could avoid it by using Firefox, or not going to crazy sites, but later Spybot became a necessity. And every so often, you’d spend some time getting rid of some stupid worm.

Obviously this isn’t a problem for me now, as I rarely even connect to the internet under XP now.

I’m not saying that Vista/XP doesn’t have benefits over OS X in areas. I’m sure it does, of course. It’s just that the XP interface is like a child wanting attention. You don’t notice it until you try something that leaves you alone. It would have been very nice to be able to control these interruptions on a global scale.

85

[QUOTE=wasson]

But my Mac? I don’t need a 3rd party wireless card because it’s built in. I don’t need a fancy keyboard because one came with my computer which works perfectly. My DVD burner came preinstalled and works with the DVD burning software my Mac came with. And if I lose this keyboard, any USB keyboard will plug in and work fine without drivers and without bogging my system down. My MacBook has bluetooth, wifi, a webcam, DVD and CD burner… and it all works without being intrusive and annoying. It all worked out of the box with the software that came installed, and my computer also didn’t come with bloatware like AOL and whatever the hell else they’re throwing on computers these days to make them cheaper. And for a Mac, virus protection and spyware detection software don’t exist, further making my computing experience pleasant and freeing up some much needed harddrive space and system memory.

[/QUOTE]

OS X - DVD burner software is built in, you can import, make, and score yoru movies and have GREAT results.
Windows - Slightly adequate software is built in, in the hope you get pissed off enough to buy the $80 full size program. We edit your video, kinda, but cripple the output so you’ll upgrade.

OS X - Clean install from the factory is an empty desktop. Real versions of Real applications (with the slight exception of iWork, which not everybody needs) are installed.
Windows - ‘Join AOL!’, Buy Roxio!, Upgrade your DVD software to platinum Pro!, Virus scanning by McAfee(), Symantec(), and Joe’sCheapVirusScanner, Wanna send Pictures to Walmart? Earthlink’s here too!

OS X - Virus Scanner? What do I need a Virus scanner for?
Windows - McAfee, if we’re using all your CPU (windows: Your computer may be at risk!) for the VITAL (Windows: Click here to check to see if you’re up to date!) task of PROTECTING YOUR DATA, (Windows: I’m not going away until you click me!) it’s for your own PROTECTION!(Windows: click me, click me, click me!)

OS X after 18 months - still snappy
Windows after 12 - Well, I’m okay if my pre-fetch cache is current, all my drivers are playing well together, and you didn’t install that Haloween Screen Saver! (Live Nude Girls in your area want sexxxxxxs tonight!)

OS X - We’ve changed the underlying structure of the hardware and OS, like, 4 times now. The developers are pretty good at keeping things current. We’re tight and fast because our operational footprint is no more than about 2 years old. If you don’t care to upgrade, we’ll just keep running your stuff on your hardware just fine. And if we update the OS, your older hardware will work BETTER If you don’t see a compelling reason to upgrade, neither do we.
Windows - See that pustule on my ankle? It’s there so I can emulate Extended and Expanded Memory in a DOS box. Have a Win16 Check writing application? I can run it…but I can’t print to your printer with it. Sorry.

True story: Three days ago, I had my MBP doing the following:
Install Vista in Parallels from the DVD drive (lots of drive activity)
Safari (lots of RAM)
Mail
Newsfire
Remote Desktop to a Server
iTunes Burning_an_album on an external DVD burner.

It’s not any more than I could see doing on a PC…but I wouldn’t DARE burn a CD while doing so. On the Mac it just worked perfectly. On a PC, there’s a chance BurnProof wouldn’t catch it.

To be fair. The Mac is just a computer. I’ve had it freeze. I’ve wondered why it did some things. I’ve lost three fans on two MacBooks. But they get so much more right.

86

[QUOTE=treis]
Excuse me? I have used Macs. The one I used was slow as shit, a pain in the ass, and for some damn reason had a mouse with only one button on it. 30 seconds in to using it I was longing for a PC, and all I was doing was browsing the web to kill time before class.

It’s like mac users get a different edition of XP than the rest of us. I can’t remember the last time my computer crashed, and I can’t remember the last time I had a window randomly pop up. I don’t get viruses or spyware, and everything on my computer works exactly the way I want it to.
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When was that? I’ll bet it was before 10.2

Want your right click on a one button laptop? put two fingers on the trackpad while pressing the button. Does that seem a strange and different behavior? Only if you didn’t know two fingers lets you scroll your window in any direction.

My Office XP box is a pretty smooth running computer. It should be, it took a lot of staff hours to customise and pair it down for use in our office.

My Mom would visit twice a year, bringing her Vaio. So, twice a year I got to spend three days of the vacation scraping the crap of her laptop, patching and protecting it to the hilt, and sending it off, only to see it in another six months. Two years ago, we got her a Mac Mini. It’s like getting my vacation back. So no, I don’t have some other version of XP, I just used to have to support all the family memebers with ‘oh, can you get my scanner to work?’, ‘do you have any idea why I can’t use IE?’, ‘Can you just look at my laptop for a sec?’ (Where a ‘sec’ becomes an 8 hour bataan deathmarch.)

87

[QUOTE=asterion]
I miss the Windows Start Menu in OS X (and putting the Applications folder on the right side of the dock isn’t really the same)
[/QUOTE]

I like this little app. It’s easily customizable too.

88

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
When was that? I’ll bet it was before 10.2
[/quote]

I don’t know, but I thought Macs were supposed to just work. I didn’t realize it was only post 10.2 Macs that just work.

89

[QUOTE=treis]
I don’t know, but I thought Macs were supposed to just work. I didn’t realize it was only post 10.2 Macs that just work.
[/QUOTE]

Well, up til OS 9, the OS was seriously flawed (memory management, multitasking), with 10, they had a HUGE shift in the inderlying structure, it got stable at 10.2

They just finished the intel transition (all machines in less than a year) and I’d say the transition to OS X was pretty traumatic, the transition from the G5 to Core Duo was painless.

Me nitpicky? Nah, I just hate same old tired bullshit. It is demonstrably better, it is NOT more expensive. But nothing I say will convince you. So I won’t.

90

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
My Mom would visit twice a year, bringing her Vaio. So, twice a year I got to spend three days of the vacation scraping the crap of her laptop, patching and protecting it to the hilt, and sending it off, only to see it in another six months. Two years ago, we got her a Mac Mini. It’s like getting my vacation back. So no, I don’t have some other version of XP, I just used to have to support all the family memebers with ‘oh, can you get my scanner to work?’, ‘do you have any idea why I can’t use IE?’, ‘Can you just look at my laptop for a sec?’ (Where a ‘sec’ becomes an 8 hour bataan deathmarch.)
[/QUOTE]

If it took you three days to uninstall software, run a few scans, or even just reset to factory settings then surely that’s more revealing of your PC skills than an underlying fault in the machine. I dont mean to sound condesending, but it shouldn’t take you that long to sort a PC out. An afternoon, maybe, but three days?

As a more general note and not to you specifically, it must be brilliant to be so certain of your choice of computer’s superiority to know that anyone who choses the alternative for whatever reason is wrong.

I’m a PC-boy. I dont mind Macs, I can use them but I choose not to because I’m unfamiliar with them. Also, I like knowing that I can run any software I find/need. That’s really handy at Uni where I have to use nerdy software for my course and there isn’t a Mac version available. The Mac-boys in the class moan about not being able to use it and suchlike “…but at least my computer is pretty”.

But to the actual thread topic, I’m looking forwards to giving Vista a go. I’ll try it when I’ve got some free time and dont need to use my computer for anything super-important.

91

[QUOTE=pretend my name is witty]
If it took you three days to uninstall software, run a few scans, or even just reset to factory settings then surely that’s more revealing of your PC skills than an underlying fault in the machine. I dont mean to sound condesending, but it shouldn’t take you that long to sort a PC out. An afternoon, maybe, but three days?

As a more general note and not to you specifically, it must be brilliant to be so certain of your choice of computer’s superiority to know that anyone who choses the alternative for whatever reason is wrong.

I’m a PC-boy. I dont mind Macs, I can use them but I choose not to because I’m unfamiliar with them. Also, I like knowing that I can run any software I find/need. That’s really handy at Uni where I have to use nerdy software for my course and there isn’t a Mac version available. The Mac-boys in the class moan about not being able to use it and suchlike “…but at least my computer is pretty”.

But to the actual thread topic, I’m looking forwards to giving Vista a go. I’ll try it when I’ve got some free time and dont need to use my computer for anything super-important.
[/QUOTE]

Man. You’ve NEVER backed up all the data to CYA, installed to a laptop with marginal ram, that couldn’t take SP1+, then go find the drivers…then go find the software, then patch it to within an inch of it’s life, then wipe out all the crap the factory image likes to throw on there, then hope you didn’t lose someone’s data because they stuffed it in an odd place? All because they wanted to save $60 when they bought the laptop?

Have you troubleshot a bluescreen on boot because of said faulty ram? BIOS, Vaio, Loading XP, Flash bluescreen, reboot?

Fuck you and your assessment of my abilities. I DO THIS SHIT on a day to day basis. I have for years. I don’t care to and my time’s more valuable than that. Since my family switched over, I don’t have to anymore. Solve the problem by avoiding it.

92

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
Man. You’ve NEVER backed up all the data to CYA, installed to a laptop with marginal ram, that couldn’t take SP1+, then go find the drivers…then go find the software, then patch it to within an inch of it’s life, then wipe out all the crap the factory image likes to throw on there, then hope you didn’t lose someone’s data because they stuffed it in an odd place? All because they wanted to save $60 when they bought the laptop?

Have you troubleshot a bluescreen on boot because of said faulty ram? BIOS, Vaio, Loading XP, Flash bluescreen, reboot?

Fuck you and your assessment of my abilities. I DO THIS SHIT on a day to day basis. I have for years. I don’t care to and my time’s more valuable than that. Since my family switched over, I don’t have to anymore. Solve the problem by avoiding it.
[/QUOTE]

(bolding mine)

Cool your jets there, mate, think you’ve taken what I said a little to heart. I’m glad you’re happy with your system you’ve chosen, and I’m sorry you have to deal with this shit.

I’ve honestly not had this PC crash in the last year and it’s never given me a bsod, but then I take good care of it and look at what I’m downloading. I’ll admit it takes longer to sort out my parents laptop, though. (Dad is the ‘Principle Systems Analyist’ for local Gov’t, but can’t configure his router).

Whichever part of what I said offended you so, I’m sorry. However, I think the tone of your post (well, just aggressive) and the tone of mine (softer, if a touch snide/sarcastic, but not on purpose) doesn’t really follow.

93

Be snide, what kind of response do you expect to get?

The problem is dealing with other people’s mistakes. You keep your system patched, you back up your data, you keep a CDR with your drivers.

Grandma doesn’t.

In the enterprise, we troubleshoot for 20 minutes and re-image.

Don’t think I’m debating from a position of inexperience.

94

Whatever. I think I presented a fair point in my post and although I’ll admit I wasn’t flattering of your, I wasn’t particularly rude.

I’m sure you’re more skilled at this than me. ‘This’ referring to computing, though, not responding to other people’s opinions that you dont like.

I’ve said I’m sorry if you took my initial post as more of a criticism than it was intended, lets leave it at that, eh? Unless, of course, you want to admit you jumped in a bit quickly with the insults and say sorry, too.

95

The Dope is snarky. If you don’t like my response to your snark, that’s not my problem.

I’ve formed an opinion. It’s taken 20 years, several disciplines, and a lot of time to form. I can spend volumes demonstrating to an anonymous internet poster why choice A is better than choice B. I can list my horror stories (no they don’t all take 3 days, but more than I care to mention HAS taken more than 2 hours to fix)

And it all gets swept off the table and my abilities get called into question cuz, heck, I can’t possibly be right, I disagree with you. I must be a fanboi.

96

[QUOTE=treis]
I don’t know, but I thought Macs were supposed to just work. I didn’t realize it was only post 10.2 Macs that just work.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, that was an incredibly tinny riposte.

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
They just finished the intel transition (all machines in less than a year) and I’d say the transition to OS X was pretty traumatic, the transition from the G5 to Core Duo was painless.
[/QUOTE]
To be fair, FreeBSD (the “upper level” of the core operating system, was always based on the x86 architecture and had to be ported to the PPC for OS X. Mach (the microkernel that is the foundation for the XMU microkernel in OS X) was always intended as a replacement for the standard BSD (later FreeBSD and children) kernel, and so was codeveloped for a number of architectures. The speculation is that Jobs always intended to move to Intel and that the selection of FreeBSD and Mach facilitated this, plus, as a BSD-based OS it was already well suited to integration with OpenStep which Jobs brought in to be the basis for the the Cocoa toolset and collection of APIs. So the move to Intel was much less traumatic than launching an entirely new operating system, even one pieced together out of the best parts of existing off-the-shelf OSs and enshrouded by the Quartz rendering engine.

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
Fuck you and your assessment of my abilities. I DO THIS SHIT on a day to day basis. I have for years. I don’t care to and my time’s more valuable than that. Since my family switched over, I don’t have to anymore. Solve the problem by avoiding it.
[/QUOTE]
Dude, this would make a great R-rated Apple Switch ad: “Hi, I’m Unintentionally Blank and I have to work on *@!% Windows machines at work. The my mom comes home on vacation and I spend three ^&#%@# days trying to fix her %@##&# computer. We got her a Mac Mini and now I spend my vacations getting hammered and watching porn. OS X &#*&#@ rules!”

Stranger

97

[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train]
Wow, that was an incredibly tinny riposte.

Dude, this would make a great R-rated Apple Switch ad: “Hi, I’m Unintentionally Blank and I have to work on *@!% Windows machines at work. The my mom comes home on vacation and I spend three ^&#%@# days trying to fix her %@##&# computer. We got her a Mac Mini and now I spend my vacations getting hammered and watching porn. OS X &#*&#@ rules!”

Stranger
[/QUOTE]

I’m just waiting for the ‘Jack Russel F-ing terrier’ quote to come up. Heck, I’ve got a sence of humor, I’ll post it:

98

[QUOTE=Unintentionally Blank]
The Dope is snarky. If you don’t like my response to your snark, that’s not my problem.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, it’s my problem too. This is not the Pit, it is IMHO, and personal insults are not allowed in this forum. Please remember this in future.

99

I was responding to a claim that I wasn’t qualified in my assesment. I’m offended when a discussion on a forum, presumably by intelligent people, falls down to ‘you can’t do X in Y? Perhaps that says something about you.’

In reading your warning, I’m unsure if it was directed at me, witty or both, but I’ll behave if other people do.

100

Can you turn off the Aero interface and all that pretty looking crap? Does it help performance? The last thing I need is my OS taking up a metric crapload of resources for no good reason.