Vista. Well. It doesn't suck.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

This isn’t angry enough to start a pit thread, and it IS IMHO.

Here’s my $0.02 review of my first hour with Vista.

In the interests of full-disclosure, I’m armpit deep in Linux, OS X, and XP. Linux does my heavy lifting, and if I can help it, I do everything else in OS X.

Downloaded Vista using my MSDN membership and put it on a partition on my MacBook Pro. It runs it exceptionally well. Fast. All the whistles and bells.

So Vista’s pretty. If I had to characterize Microsoft’s choices in hardware 3d’ing the interface, I’d say it gives me motion sickness. The windows, uh, wagging-in and falling out when they’re closed is a little disorienting. The transparency works best as a window is moving. Stationary, there’s not enough information to pick out what’s running behind your window…but there’s TOO MUCH leaking through…it’s distracting, and kinda messy.

Power management isn’t there, nor it the driver support for the Mac. I expect that and don’t fault Microsoft for that.

I tell it to do to sleep and the laptop goes dark and gives the throbbing white LED I’m used to seeing in OS X. Cool.

Put it in my book bag, go to work, pull the laptop out and it’s ROASTING HOT. Seems it didn’t go to sleep. COMON MICROSOFT! YOU’VE HAD THIS PROBLEM FOR YEARS! Going to sleep isn’t new, it’s not rocket science. Heck, this isn’t even an oddball chipset!

So, I’ll not be anywhere near an outlet, and my battery’s down by 2/3rds.

So, I need Flash installed. (Why did it install the Yahoo toolbar in IE7?) I need acrobat…maybe HP has a driver for my Laserjet 3500…uh, not for Vista, maybe the XP version will work. Nope.

Now I remember why I HATED XP. The single biggest pain in the ass is

the

constant

interruption

as

the OS and APPLICATIONS

HOP

IN FRONT

OF ANYTHING I’M TRYING TO DO!

I’d like to search out every single programmer that thinks what THEY have to say is more important than what I’M doing and bitchslap the crap out of them!

But it’s snappy. And stable. But not enough to motivate me to use it. Even part time.

[bouv]

Well, I have no experience whatsoever in Vista, but in XP, you can keep other applications from stealing window focus by getting the Tweak UI program from the Power Tools set. There is an option that you can click that stop that from happening most of the time. It seems some things (mostly MS applications,) can override this, but the run of the mill things don’t.

[wasson]

@bouv

Well, I have no experience whatsoever in Vista, but in XP, you can keep other applications from stealing window focus by getting the Tweak UI program from the Power Tools set. There is an option that you can click that stop that from happening most of the time. It seems some things (mostly MS applications,) can override this, but the run of the mill things don’t.

This is my problem with anything made my Microsoft.

They know this feature is annoying enough to release a tool to change it, but they don’t make that tool widely known or come preinstalled on the OS itself. And even if you change it to your preference, Microsoft will still find a way around your preference.

I absolutely hate the new installs of Windows where it asks you “are you sure” every single time you do ANYTHING, assuming you’re an idiot. I hate in XP how it tells me I have unused icons on my desktop. I hate how intrusive it is with the software updates.

I hate many things about Microsoft and Windows, and I’m more thankful every single day I’ve made the switch to Mac-land about 2 years ago. I’ve just got 1 Windows machine I use as a media center, and my next project is to get Linux and MythTV installed on it. I’m not a Linux guy and will surely encounter many headaches during this process, but at least I’ll be free from Microsoft.

I just installed Ubuntu on an old laptop I had lying around, and the experience was extremely fast and pleasant, which I cannot say for Windows installs.

I’m crossing my fingers that I never have to install or use Vista.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@bouv

Well, I have no experience whatsoever in Vista, but in XP, you can keep other applications from stealing window focus by getting the Tweak UI program from the Power Tools set. There is an option that you can click that stop that from happening most of the time. It seems some things (mostly MS applications,) can override this, but the run of the mill things don’t.

Yes. That’s the stock answer to solve that problem. And I’d probably be smart enough, and pissed off enough, to Google for it.

But why, exactly, should I HAVE to?

Further, one of the reflexes I learned a long long time ago was to not tweak the hell out of XP as I’d have to reinstall it in less than a year, and all the tweaking takes time to recreate.

And to add to wasson’s observations:

I’ve just connected to a wireless network? Really? The one I set up and connect to at 5pm EVERY SINGLE DAY? Huh. That’s good to know!

Microsoft: We build OS’s that talk too much.

[Ethilrist]

They had a row of laptops in the lobby today showing the various flavors of Vista. It did, indeed, look very pretty. And I’m sure it’s not a coincidence that the machines they chose to run it were the biggest and bestest laptops they could find… the geek giving the schpiel said you’d need maybe a gig of ram to run it, tops, and everybody listening in was like “snort. As if. :rolleyes:”

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@wasson

This is my problem with anything made my Microsoft.

They know this feature is annoying enough to release a tool to change it, but they don’t make that tool widely known or come preinstalled on the OS itself. And even if you change it to your preference, Microsoft will still find a way around your preference.

I absolutely hate the new installs of Windows where it asks you “are you sure” every single time you do ANYTHING, assuming you’re an idiot. I hate in XP how it tells me I have unused icons on my desktop. I hate how intrusive it is with the software updates.

I hate many things about Microsoft and Windows, and I’m more thankful every single day I’ve made the switch to Mac-land about 2 years ago. I’ve just got 1 Windows machine I use as a media center, and my next project is to get Linux and MythTV installed on it. I’m not a Linux guy and will surely encounter many headaches during this process, but at least I’ll be free from Microsoft.

I just installed Ubuntu on an old laptop I had lying around, and the experience was extremely fast and pleasant, which I cannot say for Windows installs.

I’m crossing my fingers that I never have to install or use Vista.

Maybe I’m just tolerant of a whole lot of stuff, but in my experience, I really don’t care so much if it says I have unused icons on my desktop. I don’t mind that it says that every once in a while. I don’t find the software updates intrusive either (unless you count the fact that they insist on restarting a lot after the update is installed).

I wish there were some ways to stop having it ask you so many times if you’re sure you want things to run, but I really don’t mind it still. If they make it easy to disable, then the people who have NO clue will go and disable them because they feel “inconvenienced”.

It’s all “meh” to me. I like XP, and I’m sure Vista will be more than fine after the first Service Pack. I don’t like the stuff I’ve heard about DRM and how everything has to be new to use it. It seems there are almost too many “faults” for them to be collateral damage. It looks like they’re all calculated moves.

I’ve messed around with a couple of Macs in my day, nothing as in depth as my messing around with Windows, but I like Windows better. Mac has some nice things, but I’m just that much more familiar with Microsquish.

[Ximenean]

@Unintentionally Blank

Yes. That’s the stock answer to solve that problem. And I’d probably be smart enough, and pissed off enough, to Google for it.

But why, exactly, should I HAVE to?

Because not everybody likes things the same way? Operating systems aren’t psychic. You could argue that your way is the best way, but I hear that Microsoft does a huge amount of user testing. Maybe they found that most people like it the way it is. Things like TweakUI are for the more discerning user.

As for the obligatory regular Windows reinstalls - I’ve never had to do that, and I’ve been using Windows heavily since it really was a pile of crap. It makes you wonder what people are doing with their PCs that necessitates a complete reinstall, although I suspect it involves running with admin rights and failing to disable things like ActiveX (which, to be fair, is how Windows is set up to run, by default). They then lack the knowledge to fix the problems this inevitably causes, other than by the nuclear option of reinstalling the entire OS.

[Seven]

@Least Original User Name Ever

It’s all “meh” to me. I like XP, and I’m sure Vista will be more than fine after the first Service Pack.

Second service pack!!

Never use Microsoft service packs with odd numbers.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@Usram

Because not everybody likes things the same way? Operating systems aren’t psychic. You could argue that your way is the best way, but I hear that Microsoft does a huge amount of user testing. Maybe they found that most people like it the way it is. Things like TweakUI are for the more discerning user.

As for the obligatory regular Windows reinstalls - I’ve never had to do that, and I’ve been using Windows heavily since it really was a pile of crap. It makes you wonder what people are doing with their PCs that necessitates a complete reinstall, although I suspect it involves running with admin rights and failing to disable things like ActiveX (which, to be fair, is how Windows is set up to run, by default). They then lack the knowledge to fix the problems this inevitably causes, other than by the nuclear option of reinstalling the entire OS.

Agreed. Also, Seven, I hadn’t heard that one before. So it’ll only be another year or three before the second Service Pack comes out?

[wasson]

I never used to care much about the XP pop-ups or reminders or forced restarts or any of that either. Then I got a job where I used a G5 Mac with OSX. I know by now it sounds cliche and ridiculous, but everything just worked on it. No matter what I plugged in, it worked. It worked fine, the first time I did it. Even the more complicated stuff I’d never done with OSX was easy to do and figure out.

Then I’d go home and work on my XP machine. And every day I’d think “Why is it doing this? OSX does it so much better.” I got more annoyed by it every single day. Every time I plugged in various USB devices I’d either be prompted to load drivers or welcomed by that annoying ‘What do you want Windows to do’ screen that popped up even after I told it to never pop up again. Then, as mentioned before, everything I did was accompanied by a warning. “Are you sure you want to do that?” “You’ve just joined a wireless network” “There’s unused icons on your desktop” “XP has just been updated”. OSX doesn’t annoy you with that… it just lets you work.

Anyway, enough of that from me. Read it straight from the mouth of a respected technology reviewer whose exposure to Vista switched him over to a Mac.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/page1/

[Captain_Carrot]

@Ethelrist

the geek giving the schpiel

Nitpick: I’m pretty sure it’s ‘spiel’, actually.

[Queuing]

In case you didn’t know this:

Right click anywhere on your desktop—properties–desktop tab–customize desktop—Uncheck the desktop cleanup wizard option.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@wasson

I never used to care much about the XP pop-ups or reminders or forced restarts or any of that either. Then I got a job where I used a G5 Mac with OSX. I know by now it sounds cliche and ridiculous, but everything just worked on it. No matter what I plugged in, it worked. It worked fine, the first time I did it. Even the more complicated stuff I’d never done with OSX was easy to do and figure out.

Then I’d go home and work on my XP machine. And every day I’d think “Why is it doing this? OSX does it so much better.” I got more annoyed by it every single day. Every time I plugged in various USB devices I’d either be prompted to load drivers or welcomed by that annoying ‘What do you want Windows to do’ screen that popped up even after I told it to never pop up again. Then, as mentioned before, everything I did was accompanied by a warning. “Are you sure you want to do that?” “You’ve just joined a wireless network” “There’s unused icons on your desktop” “XP has just been updated”. OSX doesn’t annoy you with that… it just lets you work.

Anyway, enough of that from me. Read it straight from the mouth of a respected technology reviewer whose exposure to Vista switched him over to a Mac.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/17992/page1/

I know that I told my buddy to get a new wireless router because his old one couldn’t broadcast the signal to most of the house, rendering wireless Internets, you know, moot. So I was poking around with how to get it to work with the Mac. I asked on the Dope and got an answer. It’s pretty much making sure the numbers match up, which isn’t bad at all. That’s contrasted with my experience of matching a card and a wireless router from two different manufacturers. Yeah, that wasn’t much fun, but I managed to Forrest Gump my way into it.

I futz around a little bit on my buddy’s Mac still. Meh.

I play games on my computer and many things (work included) require Windows. It’s not broken, it’s not fixed, it’s shitty sometimes, and I’ve heard some horror stories, but I really don’t spaz about Microsquish’s wonderful interface.

Again, Macs do handle some things MUCH better than Windows. It’s all just very meh to me.

[wasson]

@Queuing

In case you didn’t know this:

Right click anywhere on your desktop—properties–desktop tab–customize desktop—Uncheck the desktop cleanup wizard option.

It blows my mind that you have to go through all this to turn off a completely intrusive and annoying “feature”.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

But you’re seeing it as having “to go through all this stuff”. It’s just a minor inconvenience, at worst. It’s on by default, which I think it should be (by default).

[Baron_Greenback]

@wasson

It blows my mind that you have to go through all this to turn off a completely intrusive and annoying “feature”.

Meh, it’s only about once every three months it pops up anyway.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

Exactly!

Meh!

That should be Microsoft’s new slogan for Vista…
“Microsoft Vista…Meh. Wait for Service Pack 2. Then It’ll Rule”

[Mangetout]

@Usram

It makes you wonder what people are doing with their PCs that necessitates a complete reinstall, although I suspect it involves running with admin rights and failing to disable things like ActiveX (which, to be fair, is how Windows is set up to run, by default). They then lack the knowledge to fix the problems this inevitably causes, other than by the nuclear option of reinstalling the entire OS.

In my experience, machines usually get messed up during normal use (as opposed to some severe malware attack) because the user has been installing and uninstalling large volumes of software such as lots of different trialware versions of some genre of program, or stuff they get on magazine covermount CDs - all those traces and resundant entries in the registry take their toll. Switching hardware around (even just rearranging what is plugged into what USB socket) also causes problems such as sluggish startup, due to redundant (and invisible) entries being left in the device manager.

[Unintentionally_Blank]

@Mangetout

In my experience, machines usually get messed up during normal use (as opposed to some severe malware attack) because the user has been installing and uninstalling large volumes of software such as lots of different trialware versions of some genre of program, or stuff they get on magazine covermount CDs - all those traces and resundant entries in the registry take their toll. Switching hardware around (even just rearranging what is plugged into what USB socket) also causes problems such as sluggish startup, due to redundant (and invisible) entries being left in the device manager.

I also hated ‘occasional use’ devices. If I bought a scanner, I’d plug it in, used the enclosed CD, it’d be flakey, I’d download updated drivers, use the scanner for a few days for what I needed it for…eight months later, when I needed it again, I had to do the whole ‘troubleshoot’ thing again.

It makes you wonder what people are doing with their PCs that necessitates a complete reinstall, although I suspect it involves running with admin rights and failing to disable things like ActiveX (which, to be fair, is how Windows is set up to run, by default). They then lack the knowledge to fix the problems this inevitably causes, other than by the nuclear option of reinstalling the entire OS.

See, that’s where you’re wrong. In an office environment, you don’t have TIME to troubleshoot every little oddity that occurs. A ghost image can be dumped on the drive and the system rebuilt in 75 minutes or so. A ‘nuking’ is a more efficient use of my TIME then spending days in SysInternals. You’re blind to the time you spend mucking about with your OS. That ‘maintenance’ doesn’t exist on OS X. You have more time to do things rather than tune.

We tried the ‘don’t’ run as Admin’ experiment. In Theory it’s a better way to go, in Practice, it’s a PITA. XP wasn’t built to operate that way.

Unbuntu, OS X, and other ‘sudo’ enabled OS’s were. Life’s a whole lot easier that way.

[Sunspace]

So, has anyone tried playing HD content on it yet? I’m curious to see whether the whole “I’ll down-rez your HD video if you don’t have an approved path to an approved HDMI display” thing is working yet. I have an HD monitor with only a DVI connector, and if I can’t play the occasional HD-DVD on it, I won’t upgrade.