Wacky UFO conspiracy time: If govt. has ET tech., what's it waiting for?

Not your usual, serious GD (i.e., abortion, Iraq, God, gay marriage, and Bush), so bear with me for this hypothetical conspiracy discussion. Or go read another thread.

Let’s presume for a moment that the UFO conspiracy folks are right, and that the U.S. govt. recovered a crashed alien spacecraft outside of Roswell, N.M., in July 1947 and possibly on several other occasions in other locations since. Perhaps they even developed relations with the beings who created/piloted them. Whatever the case, the U.S. govt. now has in its possession alien technology. They have mastered enough of it to create our own craft which can defy gravity and the laws of inertia and c as a universal speed limit. Perhaps they even have the capacity for some form of time travel, or access to limitless, pollution-free zero-point energy generation. Not to mention, probably some wicked cool weapons.

So what are they waiting for? Why not use this technology to (a) conquer the world swiftly or (b) bring humanity into an age of prosperity and peace (free energy, etc.)? Seems we could have done better than the clumsy job we’ve done in Iraq and Afghanistan, with all the crude flying machines and explosives.

You’ve just made one of the more crucial arguements against the idea of crashing saucers.

Of course, maybe we are afraid to use technology from aliens who can’t keep their sooper craft from crashing the desert.

Another point:

If aliens act similarly to how they are depicted by UFO believers, then GO AIR FORCE! If Aliens really do kidnap people, probe their anuses, and wipe their memories, then damn straight we should be looking for ways to wipe out the bastards.

Another point:
If there really were aliens of unknown intentions, wouldn’t the military be able to use their existance as the mother of all funding tools? “We have detected UFOs. We don’t know what they’re up to, or where they come from, or what their intentions are. For God’s sake, please give us more money for research into sensors, death rays, computers, chemical X, etc. We are defenseless against these creatures!” The existance of UFOs would be the biggest boon to Pentagon budget sprees ever. And everyone knows that the most important thing to the Pentagon is increasing the Pentagon budget. The fact that they refuse to use this tool to increase their budget leads one to believe that the tool does not exist.

:slight_smile: Classic.

I should definitely think so. But perhaps the funding is still fast and loose enough at the moment. FWIW, one of the folks interviewed over at http://www.disclosureproject.org (no, I have no affiliation with Dr. Greer, et al), claims that this is exactly what we can expect in the future (as a pretext for putting weapons in space):

http://www.disclosureproject.org/PDF-Documents/GreatestSecret1pg.pdf

Again, FWIW. And she never says aliens are real … just that they’d be used as a threat.

Anyway, back to the discussion.

Didn’t you see MIB? The government has the tech, they just are releasing it slowly so as not to cause severe disruptions to the economy. Jeez.

Does the right to bear arms apply to phasers and ray-guns? Do you really want some militia group running around with a death-ray?

And then we’d also have to deal with FUI, or Flying Under the Influence, if they brought saucers to the mass-market.

Thank god, they are keeping this stuff under wraps.

You’d think we’d be a bit more obvious about this.

“Gee how do we let the world know about the alien menace?!”
“Press conference”
"Naaah, let’s do some vague interviews and leaves some important looking papers lying around. That way, the conspiracy nuts will do the job for us!
“Golly, I hope some invents the Science Ficiton channel soon!”

They still haven’t gotten the instruction manuals translated.

You think finding government agents who are fluent in Arabic is tough, try finding agents fluent in Braxxian! :smiley:

IF the Govt. had these technologies (and they DON’T*) they wouldn’t use them except in dire circumstances. Since 1947, the U.S. military has been well equal to the task (Vietnam indifference notwithstanding) everytime.

Now, if WWII happened today, and Hitler was a MUCH better tactician than he really was, and we were REALLY backed up against a wall, then they might risk scaring and confusing the population, nullifiing many religions etc. etc. But not for Iraq. Not for Grenada. Not for Libya.
*PROVABLE physics says you can’t exceed the speed of light. In practical application you can’t even approach it. So it’s too far! You can’t get to another civilization before you would be dead. There may be aliens out there, but they ain’t comin here!

They wouldn’t tell the public they need more funding to defend against aliens. Could you imagine the mass hysteria? The world would be even more nuts than it already is.

Who says they could figure out the alien technology? Imagine dropping a modern computer on the desk of a scientist just 50 years ago. He/she would harldy know where to start with it. Further, they don’t even possess the technology to properly explore the inner workings of a modern CPU. All of that from a tech only 50 years more advanced and built by humans (i.e. not alien).

It is true that you cannot travel at light speed. However there is nothing stopping you from getting arbitrarily close. We already accelerate particles to very near light speed in particle accelerators. Granted pushing a human and his spaceship that fast is a lot more problematical but there is no fundamental reason why you can’t do it.

As to travelling the universe realize that as you approach lightspeed time slows down for you. So, theoretically, if you could go better than 99.999999% light speed you could make a trip of thousands of light years in a matter of seconds as far as you’re concerned (e.g. galactic center at around 32,000 light years away could be reached in less than a minute…the Andromeda galaxy at 2+ million light years in several minutes). Of course, those tens of thousands or millions of years will have passed on your home planet which might be worrisome for you but you would easily live long enough to pop around the Universe. Of course, you have to consider acceleration and decelerration times (unless you have an inertialess insta-acceleration superdrive) which add to your travel time but not so significantly that it is a problem (at the outside a few months for that).

A little logic about the topic. (Its sad that I’ve actually given this some thought before). If anyone had the technology to travel vast distances then they would also have the ability to use discreet observation techniques. We can already put a camera on the back of a fly, think of what an advanced civilization could do.

Then again, after watching TV signals from here they may think “stick it up your ass” is a universal greeting and we keep missing out on “first contact”.

I think another reason against the Roswell style theory is that the aliens way too similar to us. I think the conspiracy nuts really need to be more inventive with the whole concept. We are being lazy assuming that the aliens will be quite similar looking to us. That is, about the same size, flying similar sized spaceships made out of similar materials. Look at the diversity there is on Earth where everything evolved from (probably) the same bit of algae in the same atmosphere and gravity.

Consider the different types of life that could be possible on a planet with massively different gravity, pressure, atmosphere etc. Or even life evolving in a cloud of gas floating in the nether regions of space, or the centre of a star.

For all we know the nearest intelligent life could be a 4000km wide sphere of plasma rotating the huge black hole at the centre of our galaxy. Or conversely something microscopically small, possibly invisible/undetectable to us.

For god sake, even the makers of Dr Who were a bit more inventive when it comes to alien life.

Yeah but I always wondered why the Daleks were considered such a formidable adversary when you could screw them up by simply putting a staircase in their way (not to mention climbing a ladder or have a few rocks strewn about). :wink:

Art Bell was fond of talking about “The Brookings Report” which was supposed to be a study NASA hired the Brookings Institute to undertake before the Apollo moonlandings on what would happen if the astronauts encountered a technologically advanced species whilst on the Moon. The report came back that every time a less advanced society on Earth encountered a more advanced society (think of Native Americans meeting the Europeans), the less advanced society was destroyed, both by the technological superiority of their adversary and by the culture shock. This report (if it exists) served as the basis for Art Bell’s and other looneys belief as to why the government would be covering up evidence of alien artifacts.

LOL! This thread gave me my laugh for the day! Good points throughout! I hate watching documentaries trying to prove the existance of UFO’s, drives me nuts and my eyes get sore from rolling them so much!

There has to be alien life somewhere, but aliens flying to earth?

Free energy would be nice, but like someone said-could we really figure it out? Would we have the materials on earth to duplicate what an alien might come up with as an energy source?

Even if there were alien technology around and it was heavily guarded, why wouldn’t they put out a book on it with nice big pics for people to buy? A museum might be risky since everyone and their dog would be trying to steal it, but they would share something of what they found.
The pics I’ve seen of the Roswell ‘crash site’ make me laugh so hard though! Come on! It’s like trying to tell me fuzzy pics of yeti and loch ness are irrefutable! And ‘alien autopsy’??? My lab coat is more convincing!

Why? We sure didn’t share A-bomb technology with anyone, and didn’t let anybody know we were working on it before Potsdam.

I guess the theories that hold up best for me so far–Tuckerfan’s “Brooking’s Report” (just knowing that there was a more advanced civilization than ours would destroy society) and if6was9’s “dire circumstances” (our military has been able to handle everything via conventional means thus far … but someday they might be forced to use it).

Anyway, your government is releasing reversed engineered technology as quickly as they can; it takes time to work these things out .

Technology they have already released includes velcro, teflon. the transistor, the microprocessor, pot noodles and self heating coffee in a can.


SF worldbuilding at
http://www.orionsarm.com/main.html

Three words: Multi-generational ark.

Sure, you’d be dead when the ship arrives, but your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandkids won’t…

See, we don’t have them here in the US. Must be part of the feds’ devious scheme to poison the rest of the world. :wink:

Hey, don’t you DARE smack down on the Nazi Salt Shaker Robots, man. They’ll mess you UP.

And there is one obvious answer that everyone seems to have overlooked: power source.

Consider this: what kind of power source do you need for a gadget that can (a) ignore gravity, and (b) ignore the speed of light? We can throw © ignore inertia in there as well, since it seems like kind of a given.

I am fairly certain that no one has yet mastered the trick of doing all this with a few “D” batteries. It seems a safe bet that steam technology is not up to it, either – you might find water asteroids between here and Alpha Centauri, but I wouldn’t hold my breath looking for wood or coal.

This leaves several options.

(a) ANTIMATTER. Starfleet and several other alien races on TV do very well with this stuff. Just pour into a magnetic bottle and mix with an equal amount of matter, and kaboom, lots and lots of usable energy. We already know how to make the stuff in the laboratory, too!

On the other hand, a fragment of antimatter weighing about one pound, upon touching any form of matter, including air, could just about rip the state of Delaware completely off the map. Considering the Federal Government’s track record with keeping track of uranium and plutonium, I don’t think I want them handling any amount of antimatter. Crate it up, Fritz.

(b) GRAVITY WAVES
Gotta be a mathematician to understand this one, and I’m not. I understand that you can use gravity waves as a form of propulsion, and that it theoretically has no upper limit. The bad thing is that to make it really work, you need a quantum black hole.

A quantum black hole is a black hole that’s really tiny, like, big enough to hold in your hand. You couldn’t HOLD it in your hand, of course, because the gravitational force around it would suck you INTO it before you even successfully TOUCHED the thing. In fact, the first thing it would do as soon as it came out of your bag would be to head straight for the core of the Earth, eating rock and dirt as fast as it went. It would then yo-yo back and forth through the Earth’s crust, eventually eating the entire planet and everything on it.

Would YOU want the Feds screwing around with anything like this? The first thing I’d do is crate the sucker up and stick it in Hangar 51 forever. Crate it up, Fritz.

© BUSSARD RAMJET
This idea is fairly simple. There is supposedly a great deal of hydrogen in space. Why not run an engine on it? Just set up magnetic ramscoops, thousands of miles across, and have them channel all this hydrogen into your engines as you fly the ship! Theoretically, you can never run out of fuel, and you can accelerate up to an infinite velocity!

On the other hand, you have to get it up to a certain speed before it will work at all. And you still have to worry about relativistic effects. If we had one from the aliens that worked, we’d need to get it into orbit with space shuttles as tugboats, then we’d need to get it clear of the Sun’s gravity, and then we’d need to figure some way to get it up to ramscoop speeds… and then we’d kiss it goodbye for a few years while the astronauts aboard got it up to ramscoop speeds, field tested the thing, and brought it back. They’d only be gone a couple of years, THEIR time… while ghod knows how long would pass here; I can’t figure out the math.

And if I can’t, it’s a safe bet no politician can. Crate it up, Fritz.

(D) TOTAL CONVERSION
Theoretically, we’ve known about this one for years. You split atoms, you get energy. So far, we’ve only been able to do it with hydrogen and uranium and stuff, but it’s theoretically possible with ANYTHING made of atoms. Furthermore, we can only do it with a very low rate of efficiency – most of the atoms aren’t split before the chain reaction dies out.

What if we could do it with 100% efficiency? With ANY SUBSTANCE? This would kick ass. The garbage in your kitchen garbage can, when dumped into a Total Converter, could run your house’s electricity for the next 100 years!

Plainly, this would make a dandy starship engine. Just load it up with lots of ballast, and shovel a few pounds of lead shot in, periodically, to keep the power levels up. Man, if the government has THIS… why haven’t they released it?

Well, because if we took a person about my size, and converted his mass to energy, right there on the spot, we would rip the entire state of Texas off the hemisphere, trigger tectonic effects, volcanoes, possibly crack the entire planet, and pretty much trigger global armaggeddon, right freakin’ there.

We’ve already SEEN what a few loonies aboard a couple airliners could do. Do we really want Total Conversion Units in every household in America?

Crate it up, Fritz.