The last paragraph in my previous post was dramatic license. I don’t truly believe that all behavior by a waitperson up to throwing an ashtray should be excused. I usually deduct two percent from the tip for that.
NOTE FOR THE HUMOR IMPAIRED: That last sentence was not intended to be serious. I normally deduct four percent.
ANOTHER NOTE FOR THE HUMOR IMPAIRED: That last sentence was not intended to be serious.
(And this point truly is serious) If Cheesesteak is saying, in essence, that there is a hidden reason for asking if I want my change, I am fully within my rights to determine what that reason is. My assumption is that the waitperson just wants the change as a tip. Any money that is due me in change is mine, not the restaurant’s and not the waitperson’s. And asking a question that implicitly lays claim to the money (in my interpretation) is rude. So, I am fully justified in responding to the “Do you want/need your change?” question with one of my own: “Why do you ask?”
Right?
(Again, full disclosure: I’ve never done this, and probably never will. But I [and obviously others] feel the change question is rude. Why on earth would a waitperson risk being rude to a customer if they don’t have to? It can only hurt, and doesn’t help.)
I don’t disagree that the safe thing for a server to do is to phrase it as “I’ll be right back with your change” so as to give the customer the opportunity to say “Oh, no…just keep it”. However, I still think the reason that they need to phrase it that way is silly. Basically, they have to tiptoe around the fact that they expect a tip, even though tipping is standard practice and all other things being equal, they’d have received a good tip if not for this one “presumptuous” remark. IMO, it’s just a giant load of passive-aggressive nonsense and I think that anyone who would actually reduce the amount of the tip they’d otherwise intended to leave over something so ridiculous is an asshole.
Certainly, but those assholes are acting well within their rights. Of course, so is the waiter – but only the waiter gets hurt at the end of the transaction if said waiter can’t bring themselves to stick to etiquette for etiquette’s sake.
I always thought it was a simple and effortless thing to stick to the tried and true conventions of server-patron exchange. It’s not everyday conversation – it’s a rule-driven situation from start to finish. Why insist on saying things the way you want to say them, rather than just follow the rules? Others’ MMV.
Be that as it may, I was addressing concerns that were presented.
I’m not an advocate of the practice. There’re a number of common practices in the food service industry that I don’t advocate.
This whole thread is about how things ought to be. The OP said that things ought to be such that it wasn’t a relatively common practice for servers to inquire as to the status of the transactions of payment.
While the resto and the server have the responsibility of dealing with umbrage, it’s not always their fault.
Whether or not someone is correct to taek umbrage of course depends on the criteria used to reach the conclusion.
With me and my umbrage- I’ve put a high premium on it. It’s just not worth it to me to notice incidental slights that I may have only imagined. I’m too busy with blatant slights.
But not everyone’s umbrage is so valuable as mine.
Cheap umbrage is always correctly taken.
That’d be the day. When every [group of humans] could be correct in every situation.
Nope. Not a problem. When I go into a restaurant, I fully expect to have to tip the waitress unless she does something really, really bad. I don’t expect to go in and have a waiter look completely surprised because gasp I deigned to leave him a tip.
Honestly, I don’t understand why this is rude. The societal norm is to tip, and, let’s face it, when you go to a restaurant, you should be at least planning on tipping. And, surprise surprise, the person who waits on you is expecting to be tipped as long as they provide good service It doesn’t matter if they say it or not; they are, and you know that they are. I mean, let’s be honest, they’re not waiting tables because it’s their idea of fun, or because their sole goal in life is the wait on you hand and foot. Asking if you want your change back is simply a way to determine your intentions, and to save a little bit of time if your intention is the enclose the tip with the amount of the check.
I mean, seriously, is tipping now on a level with sex, menstruation, and other such blanching topics? Is it something that we’re all supposed to do and expect, but not supposed to talk about. Because I know I didn’t get the memo.
This is where we are separating ourselves. I don’t think the reason for asking is hidden, but I also don’t think it’s what you’re assuming it is. In overly verbose manner, the question would be
“Since it is common practice for customers to insert both the tab and tip at the same time in the payment folder, and I can save myself an unnecessary trip and cashier duties if I know whether or not you are engaging in this practice, would you mind informing me whether or not this is the case?”
In some of commasense’s cases, the waiter hadn’t even looked at the money, so he had no idea if there was $50 extra or $0.50 extra in the folder, we can assume he didn’t want that tip, since he had no idea what it was. The assumption should be that he’s just trying to figure out what tasks he has ahead of him, and whether or not “change making” is among the immediate ones.
Oh, and when I suggested asking, I kind of meant here, since we do have a large number of posters with restaurant experience, I think they could offer some insight.
I’m just agog that anyone would see that question as asking for a tip. It’s not asking for a tip, it’s asking to save time and trips.
Maybe this is just a regionalism, but when a waiter asks if I want change, I take it as a terrific advantage to me, too: I get to leave the restaurant quicker. My goodness, I can’t remember the last time I paid cash at a restaurant in which I wasn’t asked if I “need change.” Good night, why would you want to sit around waiting for change if, as is often the case, you’ve already taken care of the tip and everyone involved gets to save the trouble?
I still think that the OP’s waitress – and those servers in this thread agreeing with her – are infrequent exceptions. I will only concede that the practice might be more common in other parts of the country than my own. But a nationwide show of hands among servers would put the OP’s waitress among a tiny minority, IMHO.
You seem to be the only one who’s getting inflamed here. It’s not a matter of pulling anything over on anyone. It simply isn’t up for discussion, and I don’t need some sullen little twerp giving me the stink eye because they felt they deserved more of a tip than I felt like leaving. I am the one who decides if the service was good enough to warrant a tip and I don’t need to be prompted to leave one.
I’m wondering how it breaks down along regional lines … and also along lines of age.
Urban folks on the coasts have a vague reputation for rudeness – but perhaps that’s from the vantage point of traditonal Southerners and Mid-Westerners. I can tell you that wherever I’ve lived, asking about the change is considered rude. And that consideration is not much questioned or resisted
There already IS a perfectly succinct and clear way of stating this, and it’s been posted by a restaurant manager, and several other posters with restaurant experience. And that statement, by the server is; “I’ll be right back with your chance small pause”.
Is it a question of semantics? Yes, but as so many others have pointed out, so are our dealings in life PERIOD. How far is a guy going to get with a girl if he says “so, let’s fuck”, as opposed to a more aesthetically appealing approach to seduction?
Several people with such experience HAVE offered insight.
P.S.- I’m far from inflamed. I had thought we were having a rather calm and near-rational discussion about some people’s tendencies to over-react to subtle verbal cues at the restaurant tables. I might be wrong though. :: shrug ::
I tend to be an overgenerous tipper- that is I usually tip 20% because the math is easier, even if the service is subpar (especially if I am out with my kids). A waiter would really have to screw up for me to work up the motivation to calculate a lower percent which usually means a poor or rude waiter gets 10% or nothing.
All that said I do feel an increasing malaise regarding tipping. Everyone wants a tip and there are more frequent attempts to earn my tip through sympathy. Ariticles and TV shows that tell me how hard being a waiter is fall on deaf ears. What about how hard I had to work to be able to afford dining out? What about the fact that while I am dining at your table I am also paying a babysitter at $12/hr for the privilage of going out with my wife? I know waiting tables is hard work- it’s also hard work being able to afford to tip generously. A tip should never be asked for- it should be earned.
Particularly annoying are the little tip cups on the counters of establishments that have served me for all of 30 seconds. It’s not rational but it makes me hate the very idea of tiping.
And another thing that irritates me are uppity salepeople in high end stores. I am the one spending the money- you are the one handing me the bag…
Yes, but a large number of people won’t respond to the declarative statement. Asking the question essentially forces the response. So why is that important? At most of the restaurants around here, there is no “cash register” that the servers have access to. They make change out of their pockets and at the end of the shift have to pay for all the food “they” ordered. Since it’s difficult to keep enough change on-hand, they often have to go to the bar (which does have a register) and get a bill broken. This is all time consuming and prevents them from servicing other customers. I’ve seen guys who when asked “do you want your change”, say “yes”, get the change back in the little folder thing and then leave it on the table untouched. They have thus completely wasted the server’s time and done a disservice to other guests which the server will most likely have to pay for. The time saved by asking a question (essentially requiring a response) and making a declaration (thus depending on the good will of the patron to make a response) probably more than makes up for the few asses that get offended and penalize the server.
Also, to several people in this thread. As long as the law allows restaurants to pay servers less than minimum wage, a tip is not earned - it is required. You saved the price of wages in your food bill, pay it in your tip. I would rather that the law required a decent wage, the menu cost went up, and tipping went back to being a reward for outstanding service.
Past and present managers within this thread have said asking if you want change is rude.
Past and present waitstaff within this thread have said asking if you want change is rude. some customers feel it is rude.
Some subset of those customers will take away part of your tip because of it.
And to top it all off, not a single customer, waiter, or manager in this thread has a problem with “let me bring you some change” a phrase that takes exactly the same amount of time to say and means almost the exact same thing.
Now, you can argue that you, personally, have no problem with being asked if you want change. I’m not going to dispute that because you’re entitled to your opinion. But what argument do the waiters have?
The best I can come up with is “they shouldn’t consider it rude.” Well yeah, but some do. Some do, and (short of the OP) they won’t complain to you, they won’t critique you, they’ll just leave you less money.
So you have a choice: you can ask the question that some managers will yell at you over, some customers will consider to be rude, and you have the very real possiblity of earning less money. Or…you can say the phrase that no one has any problem with whatsoever.
So keep on arguing if you want, but the choice to me seems pretty clear cut.
And if you don’t get a response, you bring the change. This rarely screwed up my timing … I’d have to be ridiculously in the weeds for change-making to even really matter. Others’ MMV.
