Sirens of Agony would be a great band name but I think I’ll take it for a song title instead.
The Grey Knights are part of the Inquisition. Not the Adeptus Astartes. And yeah, the Emperor created the 20 Primarchs, and used their geneseed to create the 20 Adeptus Astartes (Space Marine) legions. After the Horus Heresy, those of the 20 original legions who remained loyal were broken up into a thousand independent chapters to reduce their ability to rebel. The Dark Angels, the Ultramarines, the Blood Angels, the Space Wolves, the Imperial Fists are all original (loyalist) legions. The World Eaters, the Thousand Sons, the Emperors Children, and the Death Legion are traitor legions, conveniently, each of them is aligned with a specific chaos god.
In Warhammer 40k there are the Sisters of Silence (pretty bad ass too).
Well yes, but actually no.
Grey Knights are Space Marines. They’re just organized as part of the Inquisiton / Daemonhunters as a permanent force, with specific technology to do that task. The Ordo Xenos also has the Deathwatch who serve a similar function, but those are Marines on “loan” if you will, rather than a single cohesive chapter.
I’m not sure whether Whack intended that to be chronological or order of strength, but it’s incorrect either way. Whack, I swear I’m not going around trying to slag you. Honest!
The Thunder Warriors were indeed the first of the “enhanced” troops the Emperor had, but they were actually stronger than the later Space Marines. The technology, that is the power armor and guns, they used may not have been as developed though. Supposedly they were “unstable,” but exactly what that meant has never been defined and it’s most likely that the Emperor didn’t think they were entirely loyal. It’s true that they weren’t immortal, but Space Marines may not be and it’s not like either one were likely to die in bed. As far as instability goes, they don’t seem to have suffered from mental or genetic problems - unlike the later Astartes. Naturally, the Emperor betrayed them and killed them all. Well, almost all. One of them survived according to some sources and may even have used stolen Primarch gene-seed to make himself biologically immortal.
Aye; one of the videos I watched talked about a Thunder Warrior who survived for centuries and then was tracked down by a whole squad of Astartes. He killed them all except the #1 guy, IIRC, before he was killed and as he was dying he lamented that the Emperor had betrayed them all and he didn’t understand why.
I disagree.
Yes, when at their best they were stronger than Astartes but they were fundamentally flawed and would reject augmentations and prone to going insane and didn’t live as long (aging). Also, I am willing to bet Astartes strategy and tactics are better.
Its kinda like the King Tiger tank in WWII. Was it the biggest, baddest tank on the field? Sure! But it was expensive and prone to breakdowns and overall not at all reliable. Give me a bunch of Panzer-Vs instead. They’ll do a better job overall.
The Astartes probably have better war gear too (armor, weapons and whatnot)…not really sure about that though.
There is a reason the Emperor had all (well…almost all) of the Thunder Warriors killed and replaced them with Astartes. The Emperor was a smart man. He would not throw out a superior weapon for an inferior one.
Well, no, you’re not disagreeing with me (we ARE struggling together!). I agree with you that the Thunder Warriors were less efficient than Astartes. They were just tougher and more effective individually. On that note, the descriptions of Thunder Warriors do sound a lot like the Adeptus Custodes, but that link isn’t clear.
However, I am not necessarily convinced that the Thunder Warriors were actually unstable in any mental or genetic sense. They might have been, but it seems more likely that Emps was actually concerned about their loyalty. The Space Marines didn’t have that problem, at least initially, since their genetic enhancements seemed to make them almost preternaturally loyal to the Primarchs. So from the Emperor’s perspective he only had to control the Primarchs and therefore all the Space Marines legions. The Thunder Warriors were apt to be much more independent-minded, and the Emperor killed basically everyone who was independent-minded. Also, I can’t find any record of the Thunder Warriors actually mutating or going routinely mad, when nearly every Astartes faction has some level of deviancy along those lines.
The Astartes wargear is much more polished than the Thunder Warrior’s version, though. Not necessarily “better” but more functional with the wrinkles ironed out. Also, Astartes’ versions are far better adapted to space conditions whereas the Thunder Warrior’s were less useful out of atmosphere and gravity.
I swear I’m not trying to harp on the “Emperor is a bastard” theme any more, but he left a massive trail of bodies, an awful lot of which had been loyal to him. And additionally he had plans to functionally betray the Primarchs once he’d used them in the Great Crusade. Horus just struck first, and was being used by some exceedingly nasty allies.
I found this:
40k is bat shit insane but in some wonderful ways sometimes.
Orks in 40k are almost comical yet somehow remain fun (there is even a Ork translator out there so ya kan talk like an ork).
Orks live to fight. That’s it. That is literally it. Their tech relies heavily on their belief system. For instance, red makes things go faster so if you want a faster ship you paint it red (other colors do other things). Their collective belief in it makes it so. If you defeat them and they are all dead then it doesn’t work for you. Indeed, almost all of their stuff just doesn’t work if they are not around to believe it will all just work.
Their characters are great. One of my favorites is Tuska “Daemon Killa.” He and his crew were flying through the warp one day when their shields that protects them from the dangers of the warp failed. Daemons invaded the ship.
Ordinarily this would be cause for alarm. Tuska thought it was great and had an epic battle with some pretty serious daemons. He thought it was so great that he kept flying around with his shields off and kept getting invaded. And he kept massacring them to his utter delight.
Eventually even the daemons had had enough and refused to go anywhere near him. So, he invaded the warp and proceeded to fight anything and everything he could find and just wrecking shit as he went. Pure bliss in his view.
The whole story is better than I told it but they can be a lot of fun.
Well now I can’t wait to read more about Tuska!
The stories in the book I just got are arranged by subject matter, not written chronology or in-universe chronology. The first bunch are all about Ibram Gaunt and after two stories, I love it. Mr. Abnett does an excellent job of show-don’t-tell, although there is some exposition. It’s just barely enough to set a sparse stage, tho; he mostly lets the action unfolding explain things. I suppose for the most part the stories are written for people with lots of background knowledge from having played the game, but for me they are working just fine.
I like Commissar Gaunt, so far. He’s not stupid and he’s wiling to take a stand, even when it means facing off with something or someone more powerful than he is. I’ve seen hints about Gaunt’s Ghosts but only hints so far. Which is great: it sparks my interest and makes me want to know more.
I didn’t win the bid on the first 3 Horus Heresy paperbacks on eBay. I was prepared to go up to $50 for them, but they ended up selling for $150. :eek: Way out of my price range at this moment in time.
I am prolly going to buy an extra copy of the book I just got tho; I don’t see how it would lose me money.
I loved Gaunt’s Ghosts.
A co-worker of mine is way into tabletop 40k (I know you said no tapletop) and he almost exclusively plays guardsmen. He lent me some Gaunt’s Ghosts books.
There are some great guardsmen stories out there. Check out stories of the Steel Legion and Commmissar Yarrick in the war for hive world Armageddon (Orks…lots and lots and lots of Orks). Yarrick was a super badass…which is saying something since he is a mere human.
Fun stuff.
Probably all the best 40K fiction focuses on the humans, which is a bit odd as the tabletop is pretty strongly focused on various superhuman warlords, stargods, ancient space wizards, and etc. But it makes a great setting for storytelling because the clashes, direct or otherwise, between the big powers can have such an impact on millions or other lives that it becomes a very easy setting to use. There’s always an invasion or a crusade or a crisis going on somewhere, on any and every scale convenient.
Probably because humans in the stories is where the interesting stuff is. All the other races are 1-dimensional archetypes and deadly dull when telling a story except as the “thing that needs to be overcome.”
- Orks: Nothing there beyond kill everything
- Tyrannids: The zerg, kill/consume everything
- Necrons: Mindless robots (I know they are not robots…may as well be)
- Eldar: Some interesting stuff can be had with them
- Tau Empire: Not sure…potential good storytelling there (I honestly have not read any books with the Tau in them…I probably should)
Tabletop though Orks and whatnot are fun.
FYI, HumbleBundle has a 40K books bundle going on right now, for anyone who wants a bunch of books cheap. (no idea how good they are in particular, but it’s listed as a “Series Starter” bundle)
Those are not books; they are ebooks.
You could probably do a pretty good story about ork freebooterz. It’d be fun to run into some orks who are interested in trading, pirating, and otherwise doing non-orky things in an orky way.
Also the Blood Axes.
Howdy!
I just wanted to say that I’m still reading stories about Gaunt’s Ghosts and I freaking love this book. Remembrance is one of the best short stories I’ve read in years. It’s told from the POV of a sculptor who spends a brief period with the Ghosts after the battle for Vervunhive (the foreword says the story takes place immediately after the events of the novel Necropolis), while Gaunt is laid up in the hospital. I was utterly gobsmacked by it. Mind, the other stories I’ve read have been excellent too, but this one really stands out to me. I’m jazzed to read more about Gaunt’s Ghosts after I finish this tome.
I’m still fascinated by the 40K universe.
I ran across an excellent 20 minute video recap of the entire 40k timeline and thought I’d link it here.
You and Geralt of Rivia both (Henry Cavill is a huge WH geek)…
