Warhammer/40k: random questions

[smiling_bandit]

I just have a bunch of weird questions about Warhammer 40K. I know it’s something of a mishmash, but here goes.

Where exactly did the idea that the Emperor is all of Earth’s Shaman combined into one come from? It’s obviously not something which anyone in 40K could reliably report. Actually, 'ole Empy was such a bastard I figured it was more likely he hunted them down and ripped their power from their broken spirits, which he then cast into the void.

Speaking of the Emperor, is that ridiculous “Sensei” nonsense still going on?

Does anyone else think the Chaos Gods went after the best of the Primarchs, not the worst (with the exception of the Word Bearers)? It didn’t get them all, of course (Leman Russ was crude but noble), but Rogal Dorn and Roboute Guillman seemed to be just arrogant bastards even compared to the other Primarchs. Most of the other

The Chaos Gods are simulataneously raw “elemental” Warp energies and thinking creatures, right? Slaanesh in particular seems to be composed of Eldar spirits, but also somehow seperate from them (since it apparently takes great delight in tormenting the spirits which make it up, and views them individually as seperate from itself). Or is every Chaos God sort of a combination of self-hating spirits (or at least, they hate most/all of those they are “glued” to, making decisions that please the majority but also never pleasing anyone?

Also, the Tyranids. OK, they go around and EAT. Uh, yeah. If they’re not just pointlessly malicious, why wouldn’t they just park themselves around a star and soak up energy? There’s plenty of moisture to be found in the vastness of Space. However, they go to a huge amount of trouble to kill and eat everything.

There seems to be some distinction made in some sources between “The Realm of the Dead” and “The Warp”, although there is some overlap as well. You can summon people back from the dead in rare circumstances.

Likewise, Pariahs. There seem to be variations on this, with some people being “Dead Zones” in Warp space (which is assumed to make them soulless husks or something, although this is somewhat iffy as a piece of logic), and others who simply blank out Warp energy. It seems that both ordinary and extraordinary people confuse the two. There may even be something else a bit different from both, since some people (Anna Bequin?) seem to cause pain to Psykers on touch.

Exactly how do they track down Culexus Assassins? It seems like it’d be damnably hard to find such individuals, but even then, you’d only want the ones with perfect bodies and extremely clever minds and who were utterly loyal to the IMperium. Sort of like a Space Marine candidate time ten. Likewise, apparently the Eldar figured they’d be killed off if not for the Culexus Temple - did they ever figure this out? Was it something related to the Necrons or Tyranids?

So, the Dark Angels are just utter bastards, or what? The Imperial-side ones actually seem worse than the Chaos-affected bunch.

I recall a mention that the Ordo Malleus would commonly requisition soldiers from the Guard, then kill them all once the fight was over, 'cuz, you know, they might have somehow been tainted by seeing awful things, which would make them want to worship said awful things. Or something. But they only mind-wiped Space Marines, however. Likewise, they apparently send Grey Knights recruits through immense training, they waste their minds. Um, wouldn’t it be more practical (if this was even neccessary) to do this first?

I was replaying Dawn of War and realized that the Inquisitor there must have been a Grey Knight or something, given his body scale. But I thought Grey Knights were seperate from the Inquisition, albeit serving it at the highest of levels (and certainly imbued with considerable authority from the Inquisition).

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@smiling_bandit

Where exactly did the idea that the Emperor is all of Earth’s Shaman combined into one come from? It’s obviously not something which anyone in 40K could reliably report. Actually, 'ole Empy was such a bastard I figured it was more likely he hunted them down and ripped their power from their broken spirits, which he then cast into the void.

Speaking of the Emperor, is that ridiculous “Sensei” nonsense still going on?

I don’t know anything about either of these. I’m under the impression that the Emperor is some sort of immortal human being, I don’t know about eating shaman’s souls, or anything to do with a sensei.

Does anyone else think the Chaos Gods went after the best of the Primarchs, not the worst (with the exception of the Word Bearers)? It didn’t get them all, of course (Leman Russ was crude but noble), but Rogal Dorn and Roboute Guillman seemed to be just arrogant bastards even compared to the other Primarchs.

Doesn’t seem quite likely. None of the characters in the 40k universe are particularly likable, so while all of the good guys might be assholes, the bad guys aren’t ever described as particularly nifty, either. The more interesting of the bad guys, Magnus, Konrad Curze and Moratorion, are all suggested to have joined the side of Chaos involuntarily
Also, Horus claimed that Sanguinius was the ‘best’ of them.

The Chaos Gods are simulataneously raw “elemental” Warp energies and thinking creatures, right? Slaanesh in particular seems to be composed of Eldar spirits, but also somehow seperate from them (since it apparently takes great delight in tormenting the spirits which make it up, and views them individually as seperate from itself). Or is every Chaos God sort of a combination of self-hating spirits (or at least, they hate most/all of those they are “glued” to, making decisions that please the majority but also never pleasing anyone?

A better way of viewing it is that the Chaos Gods are entities that eat souls and emotions of living creatures to make themselves stronger. Just because I had lamb chops for lunch doesn’t make me part sheep, or even more empathetic to them.

Also, the Tyranids. OK, they go around and EAT. Uh, yeah. If they’re not just pointlessly malicious, why wouldn’t they just park themselves around a star and soak up energy? There’s plenty of moisture to be found in the vastness of Space. However, they go to a huge amount of trouble to kill and eat everything.

Tyrannids are space locusts. They consume things in order to get more biomass, which they use to make more tyrannids.

There seems to be some distinction made in some sources between “The Realm of the Dead” and “The Warp”, although there is some overlap as well. You can summon people back from the dead in rare circumstances.

When things die, their souls can be sucked into the warp. I don’t know about anyone coming from from the dead (although living creatures that go into the Warp can come back out)

Likewise, Pariahs. There seem to be variations on this, with some people being “Dead Zones” in Warp space (which is assumed to make them soulless husks or something, although this is somewhat iffy as a piece of logic), and others who simply blank out Warp energy. It seems that both ordinary and extraordinary people confuse the two. There may even be something else a bit different from both, since some people (Anna Bequin?) seem to cause pain to Psykers on touch.

Exactly how do they track down Culexus Assassins? It seems like it’d be damnably hard to find such individuals, but even then, you’d only want the ones with perfect bodies and extremely clever minds and who were utterly loyal to the IMperium. Sort of like a Space Marine candidate time ten. Likewise, apparently the Eldar figured they’d be killed off if not for the Culexus Temple - did they ever figure this out? Was it something related to the Necrons or Tyranids?

Pariahs and Culexus Assassins are both humans that create dead zones of psychic activity, kind of like mini-EMP generators with respect to electricity. Someone attuned to psychic energy is pained by their presence, and everyone is unnerved by them. Think of that creepy, smelly dude who works at the convenience store that gives you the shivers when you walk past him, even if he’s not actively squishing flies or picking his nose.
The rarity of these sorts of individuals means that the Necrons and the Imperial Inquisition who hunt for these folks take what they can get.
I believe that the Eldar figured out that the presence of these sorts of creatures allows humanity to fight off Necrons and Tyrannids more easily, and that the continued presence of humanity means that fewer Eldar have to fight and die. (While humans would be fine killing off Eldar, they are much more interested in killing active threats such as the Necrons and Tyrannids)

So, the Dark Angels are just utter bastards, or what? The Imperial-side ones actually seem worse than the Chaos-affected bunch.

The loyal Dark Angels are terrified that anyone will ever find out that about half of their numbers switched sides in the war. The fact that the Imperium is very quick to exterminate anyone even suspected of contact with someone who turned to Chaos means that being assholes is a survival mechanism for the Angels.

I recall a mention that the Ordo Malleus would commonly requisition soldiers from the Guard, then kill them all once the fight was over, 'cuz, you know, they might have somehow been tainted by seeing awful things, which would make them want to worship said awful things. Or something. But they only mind-wiped Space Marines, however.

Guard soldiers are expendable, Marines aren’t.

Likewise, they apparently send Grey Knights recruits through immense training, they waste their minds. Um, wouldn’t it be more practical (if this was even neccessary) to do this first?

Mind-wipe them before they see the evil gribblies? Doesn’t change the fact that once you’ve seen a daemon, you’re tainted.

I was replaying Dawn of War and realized that the Inquisitor there must have been a Grey Knight or something, given his body scale. But I thought Grey Knights were seperate from the Inquisition, albeit serving it at the highest of levels (and certainly imbued with considerable authority from the Inquisition).

Inquisitors use the same sort of armor that Marines (such as Grey Knights) use. You’re seeing mostly armor, there.

[smiling_bandit]

@Boozahol_Squid_P.I

I don’t know anything about either of these. I’m under the impression that the Emperor is some sort of immortal human being, I don’t know about eating shaman’s souls, or anything to do with a sensei.

Sensei were supposedly the Emperor’s bloodline. It was horribly (and badly) ripped off from Dan Brown.

A better way of viewing it is that the Chaos Gods are entities that eat souls and emotions of living creatures to make themselves stronger. Just because I had lamb chops for lunch doesn’t make me part sheep, or even more empathetic to them.

They explicitly describe it both ways, so I am a bit confused. They explicitly state that Slaanesh specifically and deliberately eternally torments the Elder it “consumes”.

Tyrannids are space locusts. They consume things in order to get more biomass, which they use to make more tyrannids.

The energy neccessary to land a force, rip up the world, and consume its resources is vastly more than the value of the matter. Matter is easy to get - the energy is not. And if they already have infinite energy from the Warp, it begs the question further.

Ok, I guess this goes into the question of whether it has a Hive Mind, is controlled by a small cadre of the actual sentient psyker controller creatures, or what. They contradict themselves on this point, too.

When things die, their souls can be sucked into the warp. I don’t know about anyone coming from from the dead (although living creatures that go into the Warp can come back out)

The Eldar apparently do this now and then. Even caling up Eldar whose spirits do not dwell within Soulstones.

The loyal Dark Angels are terrified that anyone will ever find out that about half of their numbers switched sides in the war. The fact that the Imperium is very quick to exterminate anyone even suspected of contact with someone who turned to Chaos means that being assholes is a survival mechanism for the Angels.

That’s rather unreasonable even given the setting, though. There are remnants of traitor marines who stayed loyalist and formed new chapters, so… Anyway, what was even more weird is that they hunt down any Dark Angel who was sucked into the Warp, but the circumstances seemed to suggest that numerous loyal Dark Angels could have been sucked, too.

Of course, there were the lingering doubts about Lion El’Johnson, and some sources suggest he was the one who fouled up. But that’s just an in-game mystery.

Guard soldiers are expendable, Marines aren’t.

It was more a comment on how this is supposedly kept secret. Even very loyal unis generally don’t fight very well when their reward is to be executed, and this is something that can’t really be covered up in the long term. And the Marines would just fricking kill you for trying it, orders or not. And while the Inquisition is powerful, if they directly screwed off the Guard they would start having a very bad day. For the rest of the Empire.

Mind-wipe them before they see the evil gribblies? Doesn’t change the fact that once you’ve seen a daemon, you’re tainted.

Wait, this is conflating two different points by me. They wipe Grey Knights after training them but before they go into action. Which is, ah, odd, given that apparently wipes are pretty complete. So, they go in, wipe everyone, and then have to train them back again.

Second just seeing demons doesn’t make you “Tainted,” and no other faction, including the Witch-hunters, does this (without any ill effects, either). In fact, you’d think the ones who witnessed the demons would be more likely to stay loyal. Sure, demons are powerful - but they’re also ravening monstrosities wanting to corrupt you for their eternal nightmarish torments. So it didn’t seem to make sense in-game or out.

Finally, I can’t find a mention of this in any current edition.

Inquisitors use the same sort of armor that Marines (such as Grey Knights) use. You’re seeing mostly armor, there.

Didn’t seem to be armor. Guy made Colonel Brom (who was a badass in his own right) look like a stick figure - he was clearly as butch as a Space Marine and carrying a Daemonhammer one-handed. Hey, the game makers could just have fouled up - but I’m not sure.

[FinnAgain]

@smiling_bandit

Where exactly did the idea that the Emperor is all of Earth’s Shaman combined into one come from? It’s obviously not something which anyone in 40K could reliably report.

1. I’m not 100% certain, but pretty sure that was written in as background fluff.
2. A [del]wizard[/del] psyker did it.

@smiling_bandit

Speaking of the Emperor, is that ridiculous “Sensei” nonsense still going on?

Never heard of it, so either I’m out of the loop of yah, they’re done.

@smiling_bandit

Does anyone else think the Chaos Gods went after the best of the Primarchs, not the worst (with the exception of the Word Bearers)?

No, not necessarily. Horus was undoubtedly the strongest/best of the Patriarchs, but Angron was a lunatic berserker who enjoyed the aggression implants in his brain and refused to have them removed after he was freed from the gladiatorial games. For instance.

@smiling_bandit

The Chaos Gods are simulataneously raw “elemental” Warp energies and thinking creatures, right?

Kinda. Once a certain amount of psychological/psychic/whatever resonance builds up from things, especially like strong emotions, those current coalesce into beings. If you’ve got a whole heap of it, it becomes a God. Khorne is the god of murder and blooslust. Nurgle the god of infection and, in his own way, rebirth. Tzeench is the force of fate and chance and coincidence. And Slaneesh was created out of the galaxy-wide decadent and debauched Eldar empire, the core of their worlds were destroyed and absorbed from real space, falling into the Warp and creating the Eye of Terror. (incidentally that also dissipated the great storms that had made travel through the Warp impossible, and allowed the Emperor to launch the Great Crusade.)

Also the Emperor himself is a God, largely due to the fact that the countless trillions of humans fervently believe that is.

@smiling_bandit

Slaanesh in particular seems to be composed of Eldar spirits,

Naw, She just eats 'em.

Skulls for the Skull Throne, Blood for the Blood God. Khorne’s real is the place where warriors and those killed by war go.
Nurgle gets plague victims
Tzeench gets those who scheme, cheat, backstab, rebell…
And Slanesh captures/tortures/eats the souls of any Eldar who die without soul stones or whose soulstones are destroyed.

@smiling_bandit

Also, the Tyranids. OK, they go around and EAT. Uh, yeah. If they’re not just pointlessly malicious, why wouldn’t they just park themselves around a star and soak up energy?

The Hive Mind is far vaster than you talk about it. First of all, it’s already conquered some other galaxies off through the interstellar gulf between our galaxy and others. The whole Tyranid swarm consumes a lot of biomass.

They are also not the intergalactic vegetarian sun lovers, because that race would be kind of not worth mentioning in 40k, except as some brief Imperial Navy logbook entry "Today: started to wipe out all vegetarian sun lovers. Later today: finished.

@smiling_bandit

There seems to be some distinction made in some sources between “The Realm of the Dead” and “The Warp”, although there is some overlap as well. You can summon people back from the dead in rare circumstances.

Not really. The Warp has its own sub-realms (and sub-sub realms). Souls are our presence in the Warp (Necrons don’t have souls and also hate, and can possibly sever the connection between the Warp and real space. ). All of the souls of those who are true to the Emperor go on to him. Or if not consecrated to the Emperor, they go to someone else, like Khorne. Eldar souls go in their Soul Gems which are then put into the Craftworlds’ infinity circuits and ‘talk’ to each other and Farseers and such. They can be taken out and placed in wraithbone-constructed fighting robots although that’s viewed as somewhat sinful in Eldar culture.

The Eldar Phoenyx Lords can also reincarnate, but I forget the exact method.
Some human saints can, due to the power of the God Emperor of Mankind.

@smiling_bandit

Likewise, Pariahs. There seem to be variations on this, with some people being “Dead Zones” in Warp space (which is assumed to make them soulless husks or something, although this is somewhat iffy as a piece of logic), and others who simply blank out Warp energy

Pariahs are examples of Necrons tampering with human DNA in order to create weapons to deal with the Warp using creatures (the Eldar and Orks) who the bioware creation of their enemies at the start of our galaxy’s history. Alkl Of course, since blanks/pariahs

@smiling_bandit

Exactly how do they track down Culexus Assassins?

A [del]wizard[/del] psyker did it.

@smiling_bandit

So, the Dark Angels are just utter bastards, or what? The Imperial-side ones actually seem worse than the Chaos-affected bunch.

Very much good guys. A schism from their order fell to Chaos during the Heresy, so they’ve been hunting down and killing every last member of the Fallen they can find. Unfortunately, they also like this kept secret and will abandon Imperial forces (or kill them) if they get in the way of capturing and ‘offering redemption to’ a Fallen Angel.

@smiling_bandit

I recall a mention that the Ordo Malleus would commonly requisition soldiers from the Guard, then kill them all once the fight was over, 'cuz, you know, they might have somehow been tainted by seeing awful things, which would make them want to worship said awful things. Or something.

Correct. A tiny bit of an opening can allow a demonic rift/invasion and destroy an entire planet, or system. Or sub-sector. The infiltration of the Warp into real space is Serious Shit.

@smiling_bandit

But they only mind-wiped Space Marines, however. Likewise, they apparently send Grey Knights recruits through immense training, they waste their minds. Um, wouldn’t it be more practical (if this was even neccessary) to do this first?

Nah. Space Marines are tied to close worship of the Emperor, have Chaplains on hand to monitor their morale devotion to the Emperor, are covered in Purity Seals (which actually do something in the 40k universe), etc… Grey Knights are all trained psykers as well, and their gene-seed is said to come from the Emperor himself. But IG? Yah, into the industrial grade incinerator.

@smiling_bandit

I was replaying Dawn of War and realized that the Inquisitor there must have been a Grey Knight or something, given his body scale.

A Grey Knight would never be an inquisitor. GK’s operate at the behest of the Ordo Malleus sometimes, but Inquisitors are different from GK’s.

[FinnAgain]

@smiling_bandit

Ok, I guess this goes into the question of whether it has a Hive Mind, is controlled by a small cadre of the actual sentient psyker controller creatures, or what. They contradict themselves on this point, too.

They don’t, though. The 'Nids are driven by the Hive Mind, the ultimate gestalt consciousness for the Tyranids. It is, in turn, relayed through various networks, like the Norn Queens who will form the center of massive Tyranid fleets to the Hive Tyrants on the battlefield and the Broodlords behind enemy lines with their Genestealer covens.

@smiling_bandit

The Eldar apparently do this now and then. Even caling up Eldar whose spirits do not dwell within Soulstones.

Can you give some examples?

@smiling_bandit

That’s rather unreasonable even given the setting, though. There are remnants of traitor marines who stayed loyalist and formed new chapters, so…

But they were immediately tested/proved their loyalty, etc…
The Dark Angels never let anybody know.

@smiling_bandit

It was more a comment on how this is supposedly kept secret. Even very loyal unis generally don’t fight very well when their reward is to be executed, and this is something that can’t really be covered up in the long term.

Sure it is. Having regiments totally wiped out is something that simply happens in the gigantic Imperial bureaucracy. Communication is limited to what can be passed by word of mouth of what astropaths can relay. Not to mention the power than an Inquisitor can put to bear on a situation.

The whole point of the “grim future” is that humanity preserves it’s (slowly failing) Empire by throwing endless waves of religiously indoctrinated soldiers who are shot on sight by their commissars/officers if they are hesitant to sacrifice their life in battle for the Emperor. “We need you to die for the Emperor” isn’t all that uncommon.

@smiling_bandit

Wait, this is conflating two different points by me. They wipe Grey Knights after training them but before they go into action. Which is, ah, odd, given that apparently wipes are pretty complete. So, they go in, wipe everyone, and then have to train them back again.

This didn’t happen in any of the fiction/source material I’ve read… I don’t think.

@smiling_bandit

Second just seeing demons doesn’t make you “Tainted,”

Any contact with Chaos can corrupt a man or woman.

@smiling_bandit

and no other faction, including the Witch-hunters, does this (without any ill effects, either).

The Ordo Hereticus’s prime troops are the Sisters of Battle. They’re protected against demonic influence by their faith.

@smiling_bandit

Didn’t seem to be armor. Guy made Colonel Brom (who was a badass in his own right) look like a stick figure - he was clearly as butch as a Space Marine and carrying a Daemonhammer one-handed. Hey, the game makers could just have fouled up - but I’m not sure.

The artist must’ve taken liberties. Inquisitors are simply human.

[smiling_bandit]

OK, how do I put this, I’m very dubious about the “official” answers people give, because those answers are usually taken from material presented in the game world itself (which is a completel mess and in which nothing should survive). Most of the characters and organizations are extremely self-serving, corrupt, ignorant, and willfully self-delusional. Especially the Eldar.

Likewise, the Tyranids. Yes, it claims they go around hunting for biomass. The question is why they do so. It doesn’t make sense if all they are is a mass of hungry creatures, since they need energy (mass is easy), and energy is easy for them to get.

[FinnAgain]

@smiling_bandit

OK, how do I put this, I’m very dubious about the “official” answers people give, because those answers are usually taken from material presented in the game world itself (which is a completel mess and in which nothing should survive).

Well… that’s kinda silly. You’ve asked for info on the various races and such, but you don’t want any from the source material? Then… what? You’d rather we make up answers?

@smiling_bandit

Likewise, the Tyranids. Yes, it claims they go around hunting for biomass. The question is why they do so.

Like I said, GW decided to make a new race. This new race was supposed to be played on the tabletop, that means that new race had to be fighty, and the intergalactic sun baskers make a pretty lame enemy.

@smiling_bandit

It doesn’t make sense if all they are is a mass of hungry creatures, since they need energy (mass is easy), and energy is easy for them to get.

They’re not hungry. Individually most of them have no digestive tract at all and are, for all practical purposes, living ammunition for the Tyranid Hive Mind. It’s just that the race itself is the Great Devourer.

[Merijeek]

@smiling_bandit

Sensei were supposedly the Emperor’s bloodline. It was horribly (and badly) ripped off from Dan Brown.

Wow, another thread on how much everyone else isn’t as clever as you. I hope you’ll post a follow up on how all of it should have been written.

I’ll just be kind enough to take this one apart for you. Dan Brown’s first book, “Digital Fortress” was published in 1998. The Sensei were introduced in “Realms of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned” in 1990.

Unless, of course, they ripped it off from Dan Brown’s “Perspective” music CD, which was also released in 1990.

I’ll bet most of the class can tell us which came first, 1998 or 1990.

-Joe

[Merijeek]

@FinnAgain

Well… that’s kinda silly. You’ve asked for info on the various races and such, but you don’t want any from the source material? Then… what? You’d rather we make up answers?

Never seen of of smiling bandit’s “All game systems suck and are silly and like totally gay - except mine, which is the ultimate everything but for some reason I can’t find a way to get it published not even on the internets” threads before, huh?

I think it’s kind of like GM and the water-powered car. The secret Game Publishing Illuminati are holding him down so they can keep selling their inferior crap. Little guerilla posts like this are the only way he can fight back, man!

-Joe

[smiling_bandit]

@FinnAgain

Well… that’s kinda silly. You’ve asked for info on the various races and such, but you don’t want any from the source material? Then… what? You’d rather we make up answers?

No, I am trying to look for answers which are not propganda for various sides, assuming GW produced any.

Like I said, GW decided to make a new race. This new race was supposed to be played on the tabletop, that means that new race had to be fighty, and the intergalactic sun baskers make a pretty lame enemy.

If they didn’t have a good answer, that’s OK. I was just trying to figure out if there was any sane and sensible answer. And to be fair to GW, they do at least have sane and sensible characters. The setting as a whole has gotten so GrimDark it’s become something of a joke, of course. I though about modeling an Inquisitor who cheerfully burns planets while singing “Always Look on the Bri-iiight Side of Life” just to mess with people.

@Merijeek

Never seen of of smiling bandit’s “All game systems suck and are silly and like totally gay - except mine, which is the ultimate everything but for some reason I can’t find a way to get it published not even on the internets” threads before, huh?

The fact that you have no taste and don’t know that I am published suffices to answer you. Although it’s nice to know you have some info of use. Someone of your mental caliber should have something useful to do in life.

[FinnAgain]

@smiling_bandit

No, I am trying to look for answers which are not propganda for various sides, assuming GW produced any.

Even the dexes are fairly clear on what’s myth and ‘what’s really going on’.
Of course, it’s all mainly fluff in order to sell the minature game (except for a few bits, like the Einsenhorn and Ravenor books, the Gaunt’s Ghosts book and a good few of the novels so far in the Horus Heresy series, including but not limited to the first three, which were all top notch. Most of the rest are poolside reading, at best. Oh yah, the comisar series (forget the name) is pretty nifty and fun.

Ahem, anyways, it’s got a storyline that’s fairly interesting (although highly derivative in many respects) and has a cool tabletop game that goes with it.

Nor, as far as I’m aware, am i talking “propaganda”.
If you’re interested in the answers to your questions, I’ll be happy to go through the books I’ve got and try to cite stuff for you. if, on the other hand, you think I’ve said something that’s incorrect, I’d apreciate at least knowing what, specifically, is wrong. For instance, you say that the answers I’ve given are “propaganda” for each individual side (and I presume, therefore wrong)… what does that mean, how does one identify “propaganda”, etc…

@smiling_bandit

If they didn’t have a good answer, that’s OK. I was just trying to figure out if there was any sane and sensible answer.

A very sane and logical answer, they had created and were in the process of expanding the Tyranid line, and needed fluff for it. They were originally conceived of as space dinosaurs though, and had guns instead of weapon symbiotes, etc… they’ve evolved (pun intended) with each bit of codex creep and changed rather significantly. Each round of things when the Tyranids got more interesting/their fan base expanded, whatever, they published some more books with 'nids in 'em. Not all of them agree on more esoteric points, because a [de]wizard[/del] psyker did it.
And blah upon the sniping in this thread. For fuck’s sake this is a thread about a story about space elves and orks which is played with inch high army men. Lighten up

[Der_Trihs]

As I recall, one reason the Tyranids attack planets is to get new genes they can incorporate into themselves.

[smiling_bandit]

@FinnAgain

Nor, as far as I’m aware, am i talking “propaganda”.
If you’re interested in the answers to your questions, I’ll be happy to go through the books I’ve got and try to cite stuff for you. if, on the other hand, you think I’ve said something that’s incorrect, I’d apreciate at least knowing what, specifically, is wrong. For instance, you say that the answers I’ve given are “propaganda” for each individual side (and I presume, therefore wrong)… what does that mean, how does one identify “propaganda”, etc…

Well, an example:

First off I can’t even determine if the Malleus killing off their allies is actually canon or not, at least anymore. But even more than that, the Guard faces off against Chaos pretty frequently. Cadia is apparently mostly their fight, for example, and they face off against those dudes plenty of times elsewhere. So we have a logical contradiction between what is claimed and what is observed. OK, so maybe it’s the setting which is not consistent. No problem if so. Yes, any contact with Chaos can corrupt somebody. Butit’s not like Chaos doesn’t corrupt anybody if they want POWER!!!11oneone1.

And then there’s the whole question of technology. Dark Age or not, the game is awfully vague about whether their technology actually does run on magic or science, or a mix of both in whatever proportion is convenient. Orcs definitely seem to distort reality, and humans may do so too. Or things like Purity Seals- uh, do they actually do anything or what (at aminimum, they at least make people fight better via placebo effect, but is ther anything more?).

Or likewise, the Emperor is a powerful psyker thingy. He might, apparently, wind up becoming a god (whatever that even means in a setting with an already-wide array of generic weird mystical beings). When his devotees claim their souls 'Go to the Emperor", is this actually true, true sometimes, or just complete nonsense in the setting?

And blah upon the sniping in this thread. For fuck’s sake this is a thread about a story about space elves and orks which is played with inch high army men. Lighten up

Merijeek was not being lighthearted. And he can burn in hell.

[FinnAgain]

@smiling_bandit

Merijeek was not being lighthearted. And he can burn in hell.

Enjoy your thread.

[Kobal2]

@FinnAgain

Oh yah, the comisar series (forget the name) is pretty nifty and fun.

That would be Commissar Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!. Bit of a Flashman crib, but yeah, they’re pretty fun.

As for the 'nids, I find it interesting how they evolved over time, while still not making a lick of sense.

Back in the day, genestealers were found in derelict space ships lost in transit, and the Empire sent termy squads to clean them out (or do miscellaneous crap within the hulk while trying to keep the hordes of stealers at bay). Why ? Fuck if GW or we players knew. It’s just the sort of thing that happens in space :p. Nobody knew (or cared) how the stealers got in there, why there were so many of them, or why they needed to be individually killed by way of jam-happy storm bolter, rather than say nuking the hulk from orbit. But the game was great, so hey, why not.

Then they added Tyranids as their “masters”, so that the termies could fight something that shoots back. And then there was the whole hybrid genestealer army - back then the Tyranids didn’t invade by way of massive swarm, but sent bunches of stealers to, well, steal genes from local planetary lifeforms, creating hybrids adapted to the local environment. Mostly predator genes, of course, who’d steal cow genes ? And we all know that man’s the most dangerous predator.
So, yup, mostly what the 'nids did was infect humans and burst out their ribca… no, wait, wrong universe. Infect humans to create humans with 4 arms. 4 handguns ! Most shootiest ! And making for cool, deformed minis in the process, too. Why would they do this ? Errr… to fuck with the Emperor ? I dunno.

And finally, they fleshed them out a big bunch, leaving Aliens behind and embracing Starship Troopers, with specialized bugs for every purpose rather than genestealer hybrids. Moar minis ! I think that’s when they came up with the whole “scouring planets down to the bedrock” thing. But the 'nids never made much sense in the first place, so that wasn’t exactly out of place. They’re just gross omnicidal aliens, because every space opera must have at least one kind of those. WH40K has quite a lot by now

[Kobal2]

Oh, and I hadn’t heard that bit about the Emperor being a collective of Terra shamans. However, I quite like the rumor that he is, in fact, Tzeentch.

[Kobal2]

@smiling_bandit

And then there’s the whole question of technology. Dark Age or not, the game is awfully vague about whether their technology actually does run on magic or science, or a mix of both in whatever proportion is convenient. Orcs definitely seem to distort reality, and humans may do so too. Or things like Purity Seals- uh, do they actually do anything or what (at aminimum, they at least make people fight better via placebo effect, but is ther anything more?).

Unless the setting has changed a lot, no magic for human tech. The Machine Cult is ignorant superstition from people who have no idea how their tanks work anymore and apply Holy WD40 and Blessed duct tape. Or, y’know, Sanctified Percussive Maintenance.
The interesting question would be : how do you *lose *tech ? There’s so much gear that canonically is über precious because no one knows how to make them anymore (for game balance reasons, obviously). Storm bolters. Terminator armor. Titans. Vortex grenades/missiles. How the hell did this stuff slip off humanity’s mind ? Don’t they have written records ? Reverse engineers ?

As for the orks, yeah, they’ve extended the gestalt orky field to include their tech, as a way of handwaving stuff like Lifta-Droppas (magnetism does NOT work that way ! :D). I prefer the old explanation : yup, it works, no, nobody has a clue why or how, not even the orks.

I don’t think there’s more to purity seals than just placebo, medal effect. Maybe a bit of protection against Chaos, maybe not. Depends where the writer stands on the religious aspect of the Imperium : some use the malleability of the Warp, and the fact that the Emprah is the most badass psyker ever to say it’s real, he’s the one maintaining the Universe on this side of existence, or he has carved himself a niche within the Warp where what he wants really happens.
Others (myself included) think it’s all a bunch of crap, thus making humanity’s struggle even *more *GrimDark, pointless and barbaric.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@smiling_bandit

No, I am trying to look for answers which are not propganda for various sides, assuming GW produced any.

GW allows wiggle-room in almost everything they say about the background to allow for creativity on the part of their custoemr base. A lot of the fans of 40k seem like to like to write extensive fan-fiction about their armies or about the setting in general. The tactic of making everything officially written as possibly questionable propaganda means that player X’s hundred page long description of the history of his toy soldiers suddenly isn’t necessarily ‘wrong’, it’s just another peice of conflicting propaganda in the soup.

Although it’s nice to know you have some info of use. Someone of your mental caliber should have something useful to do in life.

:rolleyes: Stay classy.

[smiling_bandit]

@Boozahol_Squid_P.I

GW allows wiggle-room in almost everything they say about the background to allow for creativity on the part of their custoemr base. A lot of the fans of 40k seem like to like to write extensive fan-fiction about their armies or about the setting in general. The tactic of making everything officially written as possibly questionable propaganda means that player X’s hundred page long description of the history of his toy soldiers suddenly isn’t necessarily ‘wrong’, it’s just another peice of conflicting propaganda in the soup.

Ah damn. Well, that exlpains why I’ve been beating my brains trying to figure this out.

:rolleyes: Stay classy.

Hey, I didn’t start this.

[smiling_bandit]

OK, well here are some more crunchy questions, which I was unable to figure as even veteran plaers weren’t sure one way or the other:

1. Can Independent characters join units led by other Independent characters? Barring specific instances where that iosn’t allowed, of course.

2. Who has the cheapest single models (even if they must be taken in large groups) in the game: Guard? 'Nids? Orcs? I don’t know all (read: any) of the various additional options they sometimes put into White Dwarf. I know some options exist, but they apparently don’t reprint issues.

3. Is there a master list of who can take what allies? Most Human factions can cross-ally, but there seem to be some limitations which are not always specified.

4. I haven’t seen an ETA on GW releasing Inquisition. Anyone hear anything definite?