I have to ask what value do you give a human LIFE and at what point is the loss of a LIFE acceptable to us as a society? Please leave your views and opinions, these are just a few of my thoughts. I think that for LIFE as we know it, in the form of ‘human beings.’ I think we need to come to some very real understanding of how things work and what things are of real importance to our continued existence. I for that matter believe LIFE has a value to it and, would like to think our species will continue to exist for the rest of time. So to this point I ask what value does a human LIFE have to us.
Taking a LIFE for greed, WTF, I really feel sorry for people who feel the need to take the LIFE of another human being, sure we all from time to time feel very much like turning someone’s light out for them* (See stress). But how many of us actually do. My point is you learn to deal with what you have and to accept your lot in LIFE and tolerate the guy next to you and accept his right to LIVE his LIFE the way he wants to. Sure he’s a dumb f#ck and doesn’t know himself what he’s really about. His dog shits on your lawn all the time, but your not seriously going to kill him are you. Then again! How about that idiot who cut you off in traffic this morning? Maybe he even caused you to damage your car, sure you wanted to do something but you’re not stupid, you know its maybe a couple of hundred bucks but sure why not wish death upon the asshole. You know in six months you’ll probably have forgotten about the whole incident anyway, so LIFE goes on. Though anyone who places any value LIFE would just walk away from situations like these. How about if something of real value was at stake? Your home? Sure, I’m willing to say defend it to the fullest extent of the law to protect your LIFE and that of your family. But the guy is throwing a shit-bombs at your front door, what are you seriously going to do about that? Are you really going to take his LIFE? Maybe those who place little value on life but I think LIFE has more value to it than that. I can clean up shit, I know my wife has five cats, I clean shit every day. Ok, so what if it’s because the guy threatened me what then? Well the law would have you report the threat, but no you’re a man so just pop a cap into his ass and LIFE goes on. Seriously though he threatened to take you to court because your dog keeps shitting on his lawn. Is that the value you place on a LIFE.
These are farcical situations but the stakes can certainly get much bigger, so ok then, how about oil? How many LIVES are we willing to lose over oil? We close a space program because 7 more people have died, a space program, a scientific adventure to push the limits of human understanding and learning which may someday contribute to the continued existence of human LIFE. Some day this little blue green pearl will cease to exist does that means that our species will cease to exist at that point also or are we REALLY capable of more. Maybe our existence will be threatened in other ways a long time before our planet ceases to be what then. The difference as I see it is that we can challenge the future which may cost LIVES along the way, LIVES which people seem willing to give so that as a species we may learn and go on as LIFE will do. As a society we need to seriously think about what we want for our future. The guy next door has a right to be there as do I. I can learn to tolerate him, learn to live with him put up with his bitching and complaining because LIFE goes on and maybe eventually one day me and my asshatted** neighbour will be friends. I doubt it but LIFE goes on. The guy has a right to make noise as I have a right to expect quiet. When the law permits it. We are all too ready to defend our own rights at the expense of the rights of others regardless of the law and I think this is also another very sad situation. Because this attitude of I have more right than you eventually leads to war where LIFE has no value.
Stress is when the mind overrides the body’s basic desire to beat the living daylights out of some asshat who desperately deserves it.
Look around you. Everyone alive has a life, including the people who don’t deserve one or can’t appreciate one. Including the people who wish they were dead/were never born. What’s so great about life? The world is lousy with life. Value of life = 0.
Wrong forum arguements are more for Great Debates or The BBQ Pit this is MPSIMS though I do recall stating something like…
So I was looking more for your opinion on the value of life, in as much as how do you value life. I was not looking for a debate, nor an arguement, but rather a poll.
Ok, now I understand you place no value on life, interesting.
Yeah, you can’t really put something huge like “value of life” into MPSIMS. I would agree I put no value on life, especially from a “supply/demand” standpoint. Everyone already has one…why would they want another? In a nutshell, would I be upset if I were killed today? Not really. Would my husband? Yeah, but he’s a big wuss about stuff like that. Would I be upset if my husband were killed? I’d be shocked, but I’d get over it. Death happens. To everyone, eventually. EVEN YOU! I’m not saying anyone specificly gets to say who lives and who dies, like the president cough. I’m just saying…well, death is part of life. You can’t have one without the other, can you? And look how many people there are! If there were less, there’d be more parking, for sure.*
*(ok, now I’m being obnoxious. Not a jerk, though! Just trying to lighten things up.)
I tell you, the intellectual discussion this place was once capable of really seems to be disappearing quickly. Can anyone think what life means to them and what the future has for us or for that matter your children. Think about extinction, ours not the damn dinosaurs. Does anyone think about the future? Will we survive more than a few hundred more years? Will we survive two hundred more years. We prostitute our planet daily, polluting etc. People we are not going forward, sure we think we are but we are becoming blissfully ignorant of the fact that we may not be the dominant species in another few centuries. Are we happy with the fact that a space program can be held up for years because people who are willing risked their lives end up dead. Where as we seem content to watch thousands die daily, in wars and in the general I don’t like you so die attitude we seem to have these days.
What gift would you like to leave for your off spring? Or is it a case of fuck the offspring so long as I can have it now!
Cold-hearted as it sounds, I really don’t think there’s a lot of “value” to life. Individually, sure…we each have our own happiness and personal enjoyment to put a value to. But as a species, if you look at us as just another group of life forms cohabitating on the planet with thousands of others, we really don’t have any more value than any other one. Particularly when you factor in what our existence means for the rest of the species.
We really don’t do much in the way of “positive influence” for the other species. We want to exterminate all the bugs we find icky, yet they actually make it bearable (even POSSIBLE) for us to be here in the first place. As a superior species, we have a hard time recognizing the fact that we are part of a system that needs all its parts to function properly. We have the advantage (or disadvantage, depending on your viewpoint) of higher thought processes. Sometimes we forget that we’re the latecomers to the party, and we don’t necessarily know what’s good for the big picture.
Now, does this mean that I would think nothing of exterminating those of my species who don’t appear to be contributing at the level I’d like them to? No. As I said earlier, we have the ability to process thoughts and information at a much higher level than other species. We have created a “sub-environment”, if you will, that operates under a different set of rules than the rest of the inhabitants of Earth.
We have a more complex level of interaction within our group. It is not merely a physical existence anymore. We can (and do) change the world all the time, based on a thought or concept that affects other people’s thoughts and concepts (and actions).
It may be a lot more interesting than the life of a cat or a parakeet, but in the end, we’re all just big groups of cells moving about on our planet. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that…)
I have been wondering though, the future is ahead of us and everyday we seem to be going further and further down the path of it’s ok for thousands of people to die in wars. But, something like space exploration which may help to extend our stay at the top of the food chain gets suspended for years after tragedies like Columbia and Challenger. Be sure they were tragedies of the highest order but then again, these people knew that what they were doing was very dangerous. I mean how many people are going to strap a couple of million pounds of propellant to their backs and say it’s not dangerous. I don’t see how wars and needless death at the hands of greed is any easier to swallow than a space shuttle accident. Should we not then according to that same set of values stop a war once seven people died re-evaluate the situation?
Maybe this is just a little to simplistic, but exploration is for the benefit of all makind were as war is no more than the wanting of what someone else has, greed. Also our attitude towards the earth seems to be: we know we can do this ‘because’. So we pollute with complete disregard for the future. So long as we can get at that which has value today. At least this is one war we are garranteed to win beause in this situation our common enemy is the coming generations and LIFE. So why do we procreate?
Another thing which makes me think, is after watching something on the National Geographic channel the other day about new medical techniques which will benefit millions, or at least the millions who will be able to afford it. Hence another place where the value of life is deminished some what. Techniques developed in some cases using people whose only medical option was experimental hence unaffordable to them. However since they were of value to develope the technique this is ok. However once the technique has been perfected and simplified now we can take this new technique and use it take get rich by making it available to those who can afford it. Kind of brings the movie ‘John Q’ to mind. I mean how Denzel’s character didn’t manage to get his ass shot off in that movie is beyond me. How many time do we see doctors going to work in third world countries and say how, noble they are and how brave they must be. Are they not, just being decent human beings who place a higher value on life?
Maybe I’m only having these thoughts because my wife is now pregnant for the first time, though I don’t believe so. I find we are a rather pathetic excuse for civilised beings.
42 wouldn’t even cut it, try just 1 the lowest common denominator.
I agree with your assessment of the level of “civilization” we’ve achieved as being pretty shabby. But the main issue here goes back the fact that we are thinking, reasoning creatures. It will be our downfall, because we’ll never all agree on what the problem is or what the solution is.
Because we think and reason independently, each person has the ability to evaluate a situation and a solution based solely on their own interpretations and experience. If you compare the deaths of the Challenger astronauts and the deaths of soldiers in Iraq, on a biological level, they are equal. But from an intellectual standpoint, each person will weigh the importance and consequence of those deaths based on their core beliefs. Some people think might is right and the strongest, biggest, richest should always be first. Others will say that a solution that looks to the distant future good of mankind would be the more practical way to go. It all depends on your personal values.
The fact that you’re having your first child explains the heavy thinking you’ve obviously been doing. It’s natural to want to understand the world you’ll be bringing your baby into. My advice is to let the magic of parenthood emerge without stressing too much about the big picture. The smallest parts of this life are usually the most rewarding. (Especially the small parts that smell like a fresh baby!!)
I thought that you wanted a philosophical POV on the value of life, but with Kalhoun’s biological viewpoint I am now not so sure. Biologically we are insignificant. Our only function as it were would be to maintain the ecosystem we inhabit, which we are doing a poor job of in fact. It is true that if this is our purpose of existence then we are as valuable as our necessity. If our ecosystem can function without are presence then we are worthless, heck it can’t do much worse. But with our improved providence and if such an ecosystem could not function without us then we are as valuable as any other living creature with that system. We believe we are higher species, and that we should expect to treat the world as such but in many cases it is the reverse. We serve no great function other than the detrimental effects we cause on this planet. We should consider ourselves equal to all life (I once had a thought we should consider ourselves equal to all matter and energy, but you can chalk that up to my part-Wiccan beliefs)
On a more personal level, I believe that no-one’s live belongs to anyone but themselves. I believe that if your life is taken without your consent it is wrong. That could be murder, or it could be an accident or even the Death Penalty. The Death Penalty serves no purpose other than ending a life prematurely that I feel should continue to be punished until a natural dying day. I have known people who have died naturally who have had a spirit that should have gone on longer but circumstances, often nature itself, would not allow it and that is one the greatest shames. While you speak of the Challenger disaster and the Columbia disaster, while I believe in the endless pursuit of knowledge, no life should be extinguished because of it. The only scientific pursuit that came from the shuttle missions were Hubble and any antigravity experiments. Hardly life-equalling discoveries. One day the earth will be gone and we, as a race will need to advance in order to survive. In fact, by that time (it is a VERRRRYY long time away) We will not be human, as you would define it. Until then our laws of physics would not propel us to new worlds and until we sit down and think of new concepts of physics that don’t follow our “norm” we will not advance.
I’m branching off. I apologise. Anyway while I believe no-one’s life should be taken from them, I believe strongly that they have the ability to take their own life, regardless of the situation. If I wanted to kill myself tomorrow I feel I should be able to do so freely. While that may seem like I do not place a high value on life. That is wrong. I place a high value on each individual’s life. To myself, I can place any value I wish but I would see another person life with infinite value, no matter what history they may have. Life seems to be the only gift Nature gives us for free. It is everything that comes after that we must pay for.
Should we even care? If I’m hit by a bus tomorrow, what do I care if the Earth is still here in 1000 years or if it was eaten by a spacemonster?
nocturnal_tick, you say that no life should be extinguished in the pursuit of knowledge but you also go on to say that people have the right to take (or risk) their own life. Aren’t the risks people like astronauts take worth it? Forgetting the scientific BS, just for the opportunity to do something that few people ever get to experience? While everyone wants a long life, what value is there in a life speant sitting on ones ass watching TV?
Everyone IS going to DIE at some point in the future. I think we would all be better off if people realized that and stopped acting like they were preparing for some big test at the end of their life. Too many people take no risks because their are too wrapped up in protecting a precious life of mediocrity and dullness.
That’s not what I was saying. Tragedies like Columbia were avoidable. The astronauts lives were placed in unnecessary danger for what was no particular gain to the scientific community. But if a person wants to risk his life, after all the astronauts knew the risks involved, for the pursuit of something better then that is a noble thought. To experience something that few other people have before must be an incredible experience, and I firmly believe in the “sleep when you’re dead” philosophy. But when your life is taken from you for no reason other than the poor maintenance of a vehicle, it seems that your experience goes beyond risk and into stupidity. It would be great to drive a sports car around a racing circuit, but you don’t do it knowing that the brakes aren’t maintained do you?
