The bar staff were right, you didn’t have adequate ID. Your problem. End of story.
Your real beef should be with the licence manufacturer, not some poor shmuck behind a bar who’s getting grief from an immature 24 y/old.
All this bullshit about “is this the action of someone who’s underage” is laughable… if you had been underage, the claim that you “didn’t act like a 19 y/old” won’t get the bar manager out of jail.
As above, they may have lost $15 from you and your buddies, but they avoided a potential hammering in court. Easy decision.
Are you always this whiny when you don’t get your own way? It’s not like they refused you a kidney transplant, it’s just a beer. :rolleyes:
Immature, whiny, plus the rolleyes? I must be special, so must you.
It wasn’t the bartender that I had the issue with, it was the manager. You can read right?
$15? Twelve people eating out at a restaurant costs $15? I must not go to places that are as “cost effective” as the places you frequent.
There was no jail, or court on the line. All parties involved knew this. There is a difference between caution and obstinance, the manager chose the latter. The next time such a thing happens to you, I’m sure you’ll just take your lumps and walk away with your tail between your legs.
Are you the head of Customer Service, or Compliance where you work? :rolleyes:
You’re coming across as an entitled brat, to be honest.
re. the cash involved, I presumed a 12 top was 3 x $4 beers not a meal for 12. Two nations separated by common language, and all that.
I still don’t understand why you think you were so hard-done-by.
You wanted a beer. You didn’t have valid ID. You didn’t get served.
Happens every day in bars all over the place - most people just say “fuck it” and go drink somewhere else. Yeah, it’s a pain in the arse, but that’s life sometimes.
I’ve been on the receiving end same as you, and I just shrugged my shoulders and went to another bar. No biggie.
You are not “entitled” to an alcoholic beverage, regardless of whether you are of legal age. Purchasing liquor is a privilege, not a right. The state has the entitlement to set rules regarding the purchase and sale of alcoholic beverages. The purchaser and seller have the obligation to follow the rules. The seller has the right to refuse the purchase if there is a doubt. I don’t blame you for taking your business elsewhere. You were entitled to do that and find another place to serve you. You (and for that matter, I, and anybody else) are not entitled to a drink if the seller feels that selling you that drink would put their freedom and livelihood in jeopardy, however.
IMO you are neither a dick, nor an alcoholic. I believe you when you say you were of legal age at the time. If I were in the bartender’s position, I wouldn’t have taken the chance, however. I do agree that you are obsessing over it too much and should just get over it.
They don’t know it’s valid if they can’t tell it’s you. Any sub-21 that year probably rejoiced at their visions of what they could get away with.
I know it sucks, my husband and I - in our 30s no less, got rejected from buying beer at a particular grocery store in eastern Wisconsin because they require ID for any alcohol purchases, and they only take Wisconsin IDs. It’s stupid, and my husband tried to argue the point with the manager - plus I know that many places have booklets showing photos of what legit out-of-state IDs look like, so that’s no excuse - but they wouldn’t budge. We were obviously of-age and had valid Illinois licenses, but no beer for us. That’s their policy. We’re ultimately happy with it, as we found a great liquor store in the same town with more beer varieties in one place than I’ve ever seen elsewhere, plus the staff there is excellent.
Anyway: Some people’s enforcement of alcohol laws is overzealous. Obviously the first establishment decided to err on the side of caution during this time of confusion - who knows, maybe they even had obvious underagers borrowing IDs from people. It sucks, but there’s nothing you can do about it; businesses have discretion in who they serve. You weren’t entitled to anything.
I think you tried too hard to convince them everything was on the level, but I completely sympathise with your position. I’d have just shrugged and walked out a lot sooner than you did.
I had a problem similar to this last year at a local bar. I arrived with some friends looking for a beer as usual. I get carded, I give them my drivers license. They say no dice, you see it had just expired a week ago. Oops. No biggie, I explain that it is still a state issued ID that proves I’m over 21 (I was 26 btw), and I didn’t drive here today anyway. They still didn’t like it, and so we argued that fact for a bit. Then I remembered my state issued FOID card that was not expired. They didn’t like that either. I’m like WTF, this is a state issued ID, why does it have to be a drivers license? After some more arguing, they wanted to call the manager at home at about 01:00 in the morning (I wanted to stay, lots of friends were there in preparation for my buddy’s wedding, and would have been a hassle to get 12 of us to relocate). They manager then allowed the FOID card, over the phone bitch, why couldn’t you? Then I could stay and get served. Some total BS here, IMO. I stayed the rest of the night, but I don’t go back there anymore.
I’m curious as to what year this happened in, because I don’t remember any big stink in the papers about the quality of Ohio licenses. How long did this problem persist?
Here’s the thing. You may very well have proven that dnooman was of age. What you didn’t prove was that you’re dnooman. That’s the point. The picture on your valid ID was too faded to tell. Maybe you stole dnooman’s papers. Maybe he lent them to you so that you could get a drink. Yes, you had a picture ID that wasn’t faded. But as they don’t know how stringent your school is in its identification procedures, they can’t really accept that. Maybe you walked in with dnooman’s faded license, SSN card, birth certificate, and draft card, and got yourself an ID. Who knows. The point is, if you can’t prove that you are who you say you are, it doesn’t matter how old the person you claim to be is.
Were you in the wrong to be annoyed? No, it was a hassle, and that’s annoying.
Was the bar/bartender/manager in the wrong? No, they weren’t in the wrong either. That’s the way it works. I’m actually pleased that the manager backed up the employee, if I was the manager I wouldn’t want my bartender to think that his call on an ID was easily overturned, otherwise, why does he care if checks any IDs? If there was some sort of factual mistake, perhaps the bartender couldn’t find the DOB on an out-of-state license, then that’s one thing that a manager can help with, but for a judgment call, the manager was right in supporting the guy who has to stand behind the bar and make the calls all the time.
You went someone where else and were served, it all worked out for you in the end.
I have to say I’m a little bewildered that the second waitress decided not to card you based on your prior annoying experience … it’s nice that she didn’t, but she wouldn’t have been wrong had she sympathized and then politely asked to see your ID.
That’s what he thought you might have been doing. I have a 19 year old friend that got a fake ID. I’ve never seen a better fake in my life. ALL info is IDENTICAL to his regular ID except the age which they adjusted to make him 22. Everything is the same. That means that he could have pulled out all the same documents you had (school ID, SSN, Birth Cert, credit cards with his name/picture etc).
Like others had said, the bartender and manager had to make a judegement call and they chose not to serve you. Another thing, in addition to the ~$2000 in fines, in some cases the bar would also have to be shut down for the night, which would be another couple grand in lost sales.
You’re right, this isn’t the MO of a police sting, but how does the bartender know it’s not? Even if it’s not, what if you were 20 years old with a fake ID, you sat at the bar, got hammered and walked out into traffic. Gues who’s gonna wind up facing a wrongful death case, in addition to getting a ticket for selling alcohol to a minor.
Seriously, you have to look at this from the bartenders/managers/owners side, if there’s even a question or the age or authenticity of the ID, it’s just not worth it. Period. The consequences are just to big.
Same thing happened to me. I went to a liquor store to get some beers. I get carded and the clerk hands it back and says that it is expired. I had no idea, but it had indeed expired 2 days prior. I asked the clerk if she agreed that it was my picture on the license - she did. Asked her if the birthdate associated with the picture that we agreed was me made me legal to buy - she did. Asked her if she would sell to me - she didn’t.
So, I asked her if she would have taken this ID two days ago. She said she would. So I asked her how I was legal to buy two days ago but not today. She just said it was their policy and she wouldn’t budge on it.
Sure it pissed me off. I was legal and felt entitled to my beer. But, the truth of the matter is that I was not entitled and the store owner was just covering their ass. It was no big deal as a buddy of mine worked at the local Kwik Trip at the time and knew that I was of age. Still, I feel your pain dnooman.
In the OP you said “The three of us that went into the bar were myself.” The bartender only saw you and your two friends. Right off the bat, he cut his losses at three people dinking a 2 or 3 beers each. Oh, and two had already paid.
This is where the whole problem is stemming from IMO. All parties DID NOT know this. You know this, your friends know this, we know this. The bartender and his manager did not know this. They only way you had to prove this to them (which is the case during any transaction where you have to prove your age) is an ID. Yours was faded to the point where they couldn’t be 100% sure it was you. I guess I really don’t see why you have such a beef with them.
I know of several bars and stores where it doesn’t matter if your 85 years old and look like Abe Vigoda, no ID, no booze, end of story, don’t even argue, just leave.
I know you know this, but someone else mentioned an expired ID as well, so I’ll say it anyways. An expired ID is not valid, and it’s one of the things we are taught to look at when checking ID’s. One of the reasons for that is, if you have an expired ID, maybe you got it from someone who already got their replacement ID, the other reason is, it’s not valid.
Exactly. My job and hundreds of dollars in fines isn’t worth the couple bucks my employer might make off of you. Not even CLOSE.
The other day I went into the liquor store and was recognized and greeted by BOTH attendants working that day. Upon getting to the counter I went to my pocket and realized that I left my wallet on the computer table. Yep…they recognized me as soon as I walked in as a return customer and the cashier for my lane STILL refused to sell it to me. The other one actually agreed to, which to be completely honest, is something I wouldn’t have done in her position but it was her choice and it saved me a trip back home.
But for most people, there’s very little discretion in the business…
No ID = No beer.
Expired ID = No beer.
School ID = No beer.
Faded ID = No beer.
Torn ID = No beer.
Taped up ID = No beer.
Unlaminated ID = No beer.
Unsual ID = No beer.
Legible Driver’s License = Beer!
Considering that faded, bent, frayed and otherwise damaged cards aren’t considered valid ID for the purposes of carding someone, I’m afraid the bartender and manager were in the right. If you could have peeked into the bartender’s head that night, I bet this is what you would have seen:
That’s why he was such a stickler on this rule, most likely. Had he remembered to card your friends he probably would have let it slide, but he realized that he’d messed up and so was being very careful to go by the book after that. His manager, of course, was going to support him because this is the law and the manager knew it.
The real assholes in this story, as has been mentioned, are the ones who gave you the crappy ID. A driver’s license that fades like that is invalid and essentially useless.
Surely pulling out the other documents (especially the birth cert, unless that’s fake too) would demonstrate the fake age in fairly short order, wouln’t it?
Another time my brother, then aged 18 (legal drinking age in the UK), was asked for ID. When he produced perfectly legitimate ID, the barman said “oh you kids can fake ID so I’m not serving you anyway”.
There’s a word to “sticklers to the rules in the face of alternative evidence” over here, and that’s “Jobsworth”. As in “I’d love to help you mate, but it’s more than my job’s worth.”
The bartender and manager were jobsworths. Yeah, maybe they’re doing the “correct” thing, but they weren’t doing the “decent” thing. I think you handled it well.
Did you know the barkeep and manager by first name? Had they served you before?
I will grant you that all of the evidence in question would point to you being of age, however, they did not know that you were 23.
I think jjimm’s got it right: they’re Jobsworths. (I love that, btw.) It sounds like the place was pretty busy, so the 'keep had to make a quick decision. He made the safe one - just not the accurate one. I don’t think he’s at fault at all. The manager is there to take the time to make a more informed decision, but it sounds like he also picked the safe way out. He’s a definite “jobsworth.”
I don’t blame you at all for not going back, but I can’t really blame them for not accepting your alternate ID’s. I know serving underaged folks can be a big deal. My brother took me to a place in NYC where we knew the 'tender. I asked for and got some sort of drink - a couple of times. I was only 20 at the time. Later on, we met back up with the 'tender at another place, where he found out my age. He said, “You’re only 20? Fuck you. Don’t ever do that again in my place.”
Sounds like it was your day in the bucket. Give the DMV a piece of your mind about the shoddiness of the license. Don’t give the Uno’s your business. Don’t be too mad at the 'keep. Don’t stay hung up on this event.
I’ll ask again - how did they know? You didn’t have valid, legible, identification for the purchase of alcoholic beverages in the state of Ohio.
Of course, that’s why I said it. :dubious:
In my opinion, people who have a tantrum about not getting a beer are not legal. And if I was setting up a sting, I’d try almost exactly what you just described.
Calling the manager is, to you, proof of age? You have to be kidding.
Acting offended and asking for the manager was S.O.P. 20 years ago. Maybe kids today are in awe of powerful authority figures like Uno management, but I doubt it.
Birth certificates are, around here, one of the valid forms of ID for obtaining passports and state ID’s. State ID’s are valid for buying alcohol. Birth certificates are not valid for alcohol because, and this is the puzzler apparently, they don’t have a current picture of you on them.
Seriously, your sale is not worth it. They don’t know that you are of age. They don’t know that you are you. They don’t even care. And unless Uno is the only bar in town, you shouldn’t either.
